Spreading gravel.

[billboe]

<font color=blue>any ideas on making the surface harder</font color=blue>

Normally if you want a good packed surface, you need to get some fine stuff with the rock. If it is just rock, it will tend to squish around perhaps indefinitely (depending upon what is underneath)...

You may be able to add some fines and work it in so that it packs better... I'm sure you'll get some more educated answers from the experts! Good luck!

 

[MarkV]

Eric,
Gravel is a very regional thing and ever area seems to have its own way. Down here in the south we would top your stone with crusher run. It’s a crushed stone with a lot of stone dust mixed in. The fine stone and dust locks things together making for a much harder surface as it packs in.

MarkV

 

[cowboydoc]

You can also get lime screenings delivered from a quarry. They will work in between the gravel and make a very hard and compact surface. I do this in my cattle lots. After awhile it's just like concrete and makes it very easy to get the loader in there and clean out the lots.

 

[RoyJackson]

Gravel is a very regional thing and ever area seems to have its own way. Down here in the south we would top your stone with crusher run. It’s a crushed stone with a lot of stone dust mixed in. The fine stone and dust locks things together making for a much harder surface as it packs in.

MarkV

Mark, do you ever roll the crusher run to compact it? My father used to maintain a private unpaved road in Tidewater VA. He used crusher run, but had to do fairly frequent repairs...it would rut from traffic. He never rolled it (to my knowledge).

The reason I'm asking is I'm thinking about putting a road outback of my property.

 

[JJT]

Around here we don't use #2 for driveways. 6" of #3 or cobbles or bank run for the base and another 2 - 4" of #1 or crusher run, lots of fines and stone dust. It packs like concrete. I'll top dress my 800' drive every 3 - 4 years with 30 tons, using the box scraper and rake. Twice a year I'll run the rake over it to fill any depressions, nothing serious and we have trucks in/out on a regular basis.

I can see how #2 would require 4 wheel drive. We also have a steep section on the drive but have never had a traction problem.

After raking I'll pack the drive by running the tractor up and down a few times, and varying my tracks with the cars for the first week.

 

[MarkV]

Roy,
I haven’t rolled crusher run but do know that the road builders (big paved roads) will put a heavy layer (8”+) and roll it before paving around here. If you were building a brand new road I would put something heavier down first to work in as a base. With our red clay we put #4 down on fresh grade and pack it with vehicle traffic. It would then be topped with crusher run or some prefer 57 if the road is not a steep grade.

MarkV

 

[PaulT]

<font color=blue>some prefer 57 if the road is not a steep grade.</font color=blue>

What is 57?

 

[PaulT]

JJT,

I am in need of top dressing and recrowning on an 800' drive also. I need to get the tire ruts up and also build up a crown. I raked it two weeks ago, and the tire depressions came right back. I figure I need to add more material to fill these in and also build up a crown that is 3" higher than the edges of the 12' wide drive. If I re-rake it so its all flat, then tailgate spread the crusher run, then crown with an angled rake, it should be pretty good.

You said

<font color=blue>I'll top dress my 800' drive every 3 - 4 years with 30 tons</font color=blue>

My question for you is "Is 30 tons enough to really do it/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif? I included my calculations below and came up with 70 tons for about $720. This is twice as much as you use. Can you comment on my thoughts, please. (I'll ask others to please comment, too, since I know how much prodding you all need to throw in your .02 /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif)

I figure the tire depressions are 2 inches too low, and 2 feet wide each (there are 2 of them), so that would be 2/12 * 2*2*800 /27 = 20 cu yds /w3tcompact/icons/clever.gif. To add the 3" crown I figured it needs to be 5 feet wide (2.5 feet on each side), at an average height of 2", which would be 2/12*5*800/27 = 25 cu yds, so I would need a total of 45 cu yards. I'll round up to 50 cu yds just in case. On another thread, someone posted conversion factors from tons to cu yds as the following:

Dry gravel 2,835 lbs/cu yd 1.42 tons/cu yd
loose/dry gravel 2,565 1.28
wet gravel 3,375 1.69

Using this table, if I need 50 cu yds, I need about 70 tons. The last time I had #2 delivered, it was about $7.30/ton plus $3/ton dewlivery, total $10.30/ton. THis works out to about $720. Since the big tri-axle dumps carry 22 tons of dry gravel, I will need 3.5 loads. I want to use crusher run now that the driveway is much more stable (120 tons of rip rap or cobble, followed by 120 tons of #2 about 3 years ago). Is crusher run more or less than #2?

 

[shade2u2]

57 is (or was) a stone size. Someone who knows could certainly share with us a table of the specifics... These stone sizes are regional & confusing.
Around here, I think that the quarries are going toward identifying them as #2 (I think tennis ball to baseball size), #3 (I think golfball to racketball size), #4 (smaller than golfball), #34 (mix of #3's & #4's), #57 may not be used around here any more other the veteran contractors still using the term. My understanding of gravel size may not be very accurate, but please correct or elaborate upon at will...
/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

 

[WVBill]

I had a similar situation with the gravel road in my development. It is well packed crusher run on top of a good base. It had developed potholes and washboard after a couple of years. First time we just spread new crusher run on top and leveled it up filling in the potholes and washboard. They came right back. Last year, before spreading the new crusher run, I ran the scarifiers from my box blade all over the road set to go about 2 - 3" deep (as deep as the deepest pothole) then we spread the new gravel. The road is still smooth.

Bottom line is that I don't think ruts, potholes, etc can be "filled in" with gravel. The old gravel needs to be scratched up to provide a "bonding" layer for the new or it will just slide off the road (even out of potholes).

 

[MarkV]

I agree with VWBill 100%. My experience with wash board or pot holed roads has been that you have to break the surface up to the lowest level (pot hole bottoms) and shape the road before you dump new gravel. If you don’t, the new gravel---which is unpacked--- will just be pushed out of the low spots with normal vehicle traffic.

Paul, as others said, gravel terms seem to be very regional. In our area “57” is a mix of stone ½ inch to 1 ½ without any stone dust mixed in. Some people prefer it because it is less dusty in the dry season and doesn’t track as much dirt into the house when wet. I use it in my parking area for that reason. The down side is that it never really locks together like crusher run so on a grade you have less traction and it tends to work itself down hill.

MarkV

 

[JJT]

Paul,

Yes, 30 tons, (2 ten wheel dump loads at ~12 yards/load), is all I add every few years, (I figured 30 yards is 1 inch over the length and width of my drive). I don't let the drive deteriorate to the point of having ruts or potholes. I also have a good base and a decent layer of crusher run to work with. I also don't maintain a 3 inch crown, 1 - 1.5 inches is fine.

I think your plan is basically sound, if you don't have a top layer of crusher run, add at least 3 inches. If you do have a layer of crusher run to work with, flatten the drive and add some new stone to top dress/crown the drive.

Last time I bought stone, #2 was more expensive/ton than crusher run, but not significantly more. I pay trucking by the hour not by the ton.

 

[skent]

I maintain a 2000' stone drive that has every thing, thru the woods, up hills, down hills, below grade and above grade and across fields. Four loads spread every 3 years usually keeps it in good shape. I do the typical box blade scrape on the hills after downpours and fill potholes like you. But there had been one hole in the woods that just wouldn't fill. Always formed a perfect circle about 2' in diameter, always in the spring or after a soaking rain. I dumped bricks, large field rocks, crush, sand over the last 20 years and it would always come back. Then, four years ago I picked up 8 bags of black-top cold pack and filled it in with that. tamped it down and it has not come back since.

 

[Johndeere3720]

what i do is dump the bucket all the way out and drag back the gravel. If you get a pile up of gravel at the end on the spreading area, use the grader blade and put it at an angle to the left of right backwards. loose gravel slides under the blade leaving a nice finish.

 

[RedHawkRidge]

Here in western wis, if you order a load of gravel, you get a mix of small rock, sand, and clay. It packs down well, holds well.
If you want rocks only, you have to specify "clean gravel", but the quarry warns you that this tends to shift and slide around, and never packs to a firm surface.
Um, let me modify that "holds well" comment. If the gravel is on a slope and water (from rain or melting snow) has to drain off it, this mix is a pain. The clay component washes out, then the sand washes out, then the rock washes out. And you have a project to repair ruts, gulleys, etc. And you never return the gravel to original condition.

Also, if you get a load of this gravel mix, it's hard to work or move without separating the rock from the mix, such as when I use a hand rake or landscape rake behind my tractor to spread it. Only the rock tends to be moved.
jim

 

[AchingBack]

what i do is dump the bucket all the way out and drag back the gravel. If you get a pile up of gravel at the end on the spreading area, use the grader blade and put it at an angle to the left of right backwards. loose gravel slides under the blade leaving a nice finish.

Dragging your bucket in the full dump position, will eventually bend or break one of your cylinders. The correct way it to have the bucket tilted forward no more than 15 degrees.

 

[LBrown59]

what i do is dump the bucket all the way out and drag back the gravel. If you get a pile up of gravel at the end on the spreading area, use the grader blade and put it at an angle to the left of right backwards. loose gravel slides under the blade leaving a nice finish.

Dragging your bucket in the full dump position, will eventually bend or break one of your cylinders.
The correct way is to have the bucket tilted forward no more than 15 degrees.

He didn't say anything about the bucket he was referring to the Back Blade,
Read his post above again.

 

[AchingBack]

Originally Posted by Johndeere3720 View Post
what i do is dump the bucket all the way out and drag back the gravel.

 

[/pine]

Ditto the tailgate spread...a good driver should be albe to leave just a little bit of clean-up at the start and stop points of the dump...he should be able to dump it to a specified depth and start and stop the spread where you want it...

I have maintained a 3/8 mile mountain gravel road for nearly 40 years without a tractor (I am shopping for one now though)...I have had many loads of gravel (mostly crusher run) spread and never had more than a little raking and shoveling clean up...

I always had them dump me a pile for pot holes (and mixing concrete)... etc... it sure will be nice nit having to use a pick-matic and a wheelborrow any more...(once I have a tractor...!)

 

[tree farmer]

About 300' of my 1400' driveway here on the wet Oregon coast is in excess of 10% grade. 18 years ago I built it with an 8" layer of 4" crushed base with a 3" layer of 3/4" minus on top. I have 2 rock quarries less than 1 mile from my house, so hauling was cheap. 12 years ago I had a chance to get a good deal on some excess 1/4" minus from one of the quarries, so I bought about 200 yards of it(16 loads). Didn't look much different than a pile of dirt when they delivered it. Each year I dump a few bucket loads along the way and spread it with my 6' rear blade. The secret is don't overblade anything with fines in it, and only spread it when the material is damp. That way the fine materials stay mixed with the coarser ones and everything packs in well. I also rocked it to 20' wide, so there is no rutting. Entire road, including the grades look like asphalt now. No tire spinning problem at all. Do it right the first time and ya don't have to fight it......Dan.