Speaking of tilt...

[W5FL]

My tires are tubeless. Antifreeze contains a rust inhibitor. I didn't notice any problems with my last tractor with loaded tires when it was nearly 20 years old. IF you use calcium, then tubes should be used. It is less expensive and heavier than water/antifreeze, but is very corrosive. I would not use calcium without tubes. You can't get anyone to put calcium in tires in North Texas. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[MChalkley]

DavidV - I would say having enough traction to kill the engine is exactly right - any less and you're can't be using the hp you've got, and you wasted your money. It's also much less of an issue with HST because you can just back off the pedal and effectively "lower the ratio" infinitely. So, instead of stalling the engine, it just doesn't move. Which is the situation I find myself in when I've got the 2,000 pound backhoe on the tractor and a load in the bucket. There's too much traction for the tractor to be able to spin the tires, which tells me I'm wringing everything out of it that it's capable of. Anything less, and I'm not happy. But, of course, I'm a nut.

MarkC

 

[MChalkley]

TomG - I think Wen addressed your original issue, and I'll ditto his remarks 100%.

I'll admit that I don't use my tractor in any situations where too much weight is a problem. I don't use it for finish mowing, for example. But there's almost no such thing as a situation where compromises aren't a factor, at least to some degree.

The load/pressure tables you refer to are in the tire manufacturer's data books, not tractor owner's manuals. At least, I've never seen load inflation tables anyplace else. But I'd be willing to bet that about 90% of all tractors have tires that are over-inflated. Most tire shops do it, even. For example, when I got my Michelin 19.5-24 XM27's, they wouldn't put less than 30 psi in them. Guess what the correct pressure is for my application? Try 9 psi. That's right, no typo: we're talking single digits here. It would be 7 or 8, but Michelin won't let you go that low.

As for your original question, I don't think anyone here will or can answer it definitively because it's too relative a subject. Every bit of weight you add that's below the tractor's center of gravity will lower the center of gravity and improve its stability, up to the point where the wheels break off (at which point it loses a lot of mobility but sees huge gains in stability). But how much weight provides how much stability? It varies hugely with where you put it, the original design/stability of the tractor, and a bunch of other factors. Stability is not a simple subject, and it's not possible to state positively how to predict changes in it caused by ballasting. The bottom line is: do all you can reasonably do to improve the machine's stability and be as careful as you can, which includes always wearing your seat belt. I hope this helps, but I know it's not very satisfying. It certainly doesn't feel satisfying to say it, and I know I wouldn't be satisfied hearing it. But there's no other answer, without extensively testing the machine in a controlled environment. And even if you did that, all you'd know is how the machine responds in a controlled environment. When it leaves the lab, it's back in an environment with unknown variables, and you're back to "BE CAREFUL!"

MarkC

 

[TomG]

Thanks. I think that's what needed to be said, and PaulB too. It's very easy for novices to intellectualized things--come up with formulas and recipes for how to proceed. Persons who spend big chunks of their lives 'learning to think' in school are especially susceptible.

What I think is that there are no recipes for safe operation. The situations are always too complex, and piling on weight shouldn't be a cure-all. I don't think there is any substitute for sensing how a tractor feels in a risky situation.

As a novice, I only started getting a sense of the tractor by going on slopes carrying little ballast, noticing that something didn't feel right, and then adding ballast and noticing the difference. Forcing oneself to take baby steps before running seems like a good idea.

Its seems like there are pop approaches everywhere today, and it's real easy to buy into one and think: 'Ah, now I've got it.' 'How to' books are real money makers, and you can hardly buy groceries without looking at some 'how to's.'

What I think is that experienced tractor users may have forgotten is how impatient new tractor owners are to use their tractors. How easy it is for a novice to turn a discussion like this into a pop approach. It's not that the comments are intended as such, but novices like me are just susceptible to anything that will get them out using the tractor.

I believe that somebody like me, pumped up for the big task, and armed with knowledge of ballast rudiments and a tiltmter (I don't have one) is not a safe situation. I don't believe there is a substitute for having a good sense of how the tractor feels. In a crisis, there isn't time to think it through. You just have to do the right things. I know that as a soccer player and as a performing musician. With tractoring, as in most things, it just takes time to get the feeling of it. Accepting baby risks so that you know how the big ones start off probably feeling seems like a good idea. On the other hand, if it wasn't for discussions like this a year ago, I wouldn't even be aware of the issues, intellectually or otherwise, provided I survived of course. Thanks for everybody's comments, now and in the future, but just keep in mind that us novices are real eager.

There is a pressure/load table in my Ford 1710 operator's manual (the manual I lost--duh). Yes, it's surprising. The table for front turf tires starts at 8#.

 

[MarkV]

Mark,

Earlier in this tread we were talking about front to back slopes and what degrees are safe to use a tractor on. Rick had mentioned 30 degrees as a guide number close to max. I know you have been running 2 tiltmeters for a while and was wondering what you have seen to date?

I understand the numbers will be differnt for all and as Tom has pointed out, you need to learn yours and your tractors limits in little steps.

MarkV

 

[MChalkley]

TomG - You made some very good points. The tide of safety-related messages on this forum comes and goes. Right now we're at low tide, it seems, and you may have started it coming back in again. I've often noticed that the questions new forum members or visitors ask indicate that they haven't bothered to read what's already here. (Notice the word "often" - I've also noticed that some have read extensively before their first post.) That makes a relatively constant posting of safety-related information a necessity. Your comments are dead-on - we must be careful not to mislead new tractor owners into thinking that if they fill their tires with liquid ballast, they can automatically operate on 30 degree sideslopes, or 20 degree sideslopes, for that matter. Try that with a load in the bucket and the bucket 4 or 5 feet off the ground and you're in for a wild ride if you're wearing a seat belt, and you're a statistic if you're not.

MarkC

 

[MChalkley]

MarkV - I've used my tractor for tilling on sideslopes of just under 30 degrees. I was as uncomfortable as I could be, too. I wouldn't do anything other than tilling or plowing on such steep slopes because, with these jobs, the implement is below ground level and lowers the center of gravity. However, you have to realize one very important thing: In most cases, having the implement resting on or below the surface of the ground, with the three point hitch position control in float, is pretty much like not having the implement on the tractor at all. On a steep slope, I always put the hitch control lever at the depth I want the implement to run at, so if it drops below that, or the tractor were to lift on one side, the implement's weight is on the tractor again. This is a very important thing to understand about the ballasting effect of rear mounted implements. Similarly, if you're on a steep slope and were to suddenly throw the front end loader into float, you lose its ballasting effect, too.

I've found that I can operate just fine on 25 degree slopes (even though I'm still not comfortable). I've gotten off and carefully noted the bulge of the uphill side tires to see how much weight was on them and been comfortable that it was still plenty to keep it on the ground. But I've got tires that are very much oversize, too. They're a lot wider, and hold a lot more ballast, both of which contribute to stability. Your mileage (read stability) will vary. Therefore, it might be a good idea for everybody reading this message to go back and re-read TomG's earlier one after they're done with this one. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MarkC

 

[JerryG]

I would like to know what everyone thinks about turning up or down hill when crossing a slope. I am sure that you all have seen the references to turning down hill if things get hairy. Is it just me or does it seem to make the tractor more unstable to do this? My tractor feels more stable to turn up hill.
JerryG

 

[TomG]

My instinct is to turn into a hill, but my instincts have been have been different from others before. I thought the rule was 'don't turn downhill.' Maybe I'm confusing that with 'never swing a hoe bucket downhill. Hope somebody says what the rule should be.

l

 

[Bird]

This has been a somewhat interesting discussion. I don't know which way is right or wrong, but I sure know which way I'll instinctively turn. On a bike if it leans to the left, you steer left to correct it, and if my tractor leans left (downhill) that's the direction I'll turn the wheels. Of course, if it starts to roll over, and you're not in 4WD, I don't know that it would help a lot.

Bird