Sometimes it's worth it to hire a land surveyor

[two_bit_score]

There was a good post in an Ag Law blog I read about a Texas case very similar @fried1765. I’ll try to find it. Of course the locations may have different rules but the facts were much alike.

 

[fried1765]

There was a good post in an Ag Law blog I read about a Texas case very similar @fried1765. I’ll try to find it. Of course the locations may have different rules but the facts were much alike.

The most interesting issue in my case is that I have a CE degree, and surveying experience, although I never did practice as a surveyor.
Point being, that on a fairly large piece of property it is easy to make a mistake on a simple walk through with a realtor, who THINKS he knows which markers are the correct ones.

 

[two_bit_score]

The most interesting issue in my case is that I have a CE degree, and surveying experience, although I never did practice as a surveyor.
Point being, that on a fairly large piece of property it is easy to make a mistake on a simple walk through with a realtor, who THINKS he knows which markers are the correct ones.

Here is a link to a discussion of the case. It involves parallel boundaries in dispute of 90 acres. The blog post contains a link to the actual appeals court decision. It discusses Texas adverse possession and fence line disputes very well. These type disputes are always very fact specific. Always better to address these disputes before rather than after purchase.

The very last paragraph:
“Finally, while it is not always possible, I will go back to the advice that my fellow ag lawyer Jim Bradbury and I offer at every one of our fence law presentations. You’re almost always better off to settle a fence law dispute over a cup of coffee than in the court house. Litigation is time consuming and expensive for all involved. In this case, for example, Hughes’ request for attorney’s fees was in the amount of $440,000. Reaching an agreement is not always possible, but where it is, it can save time, money, and frustration for both sides.”

 

[fried1765]

Here is a link to a discussion of the case. It involves parallel boundaries in dispute of 90 acres. The blog post contains a link to the actual appeals court decision. It discusses Texas adverse possession and fence line disputes very well. These type disputes are always very fact specific. Always better to address these disputes before rather than after purchase.

The very last paragraph:
“Finally, while it is not always possible, I will go back to the advice that my fellow ag lawyer Jim Bradbury and I offer at every one of our fence law presentations. You’re almost always better off to settle a fence law dispute over a cup of coffee than in the court house. Litigation is time consuming and expensive for all involved. In this case, for example, Hughes’ request for attorney’s fees was in the amount of $440,000. Reaching an agreement is not always possible, but where it is, it can save time, money, and frustration for both sides.”

In my case, only a few trees had been cut off the very end of the 99' strip, to enhance my ocean view.
I would not have had the trees cut if I had known.
Adjoining property (99' x 1800') had no structures, and was only marginally buildable, due to narrow width and required setbacks.
Property was rural, and owner had won it long ago in a poker game.
Assessed value was $500 CAD ($400 USD).
Owner was very understanding, and I was very apologetic!

 

[dodge man]

I was involved in more than one survey that went to court over pieces of land that were probably worth a few hundred dollars. Most of the time it seemed like there were bad feelings between adjoining owners that may or may not of had anything to do with the boundary.

More than one time I heard people say there wasn’t a problem until the surveyor showed up. I always answered this by saying you had a problem, you just didn’t know it.

 

[two_bit_score]

In my case, only a few trees had been cut off the very end of the 99' strip, to enhance my ocean view.
I would not have had the trees cut if I had known.
Adjoining property (99' x 1800') had no structures, and was only marginally buildable, due to narrow width and required setbacks.
Property was rural, and owner had won it long ago in a poker game.
Assessed value was $500 CAD ($400 USD).
Owner was very understanding, and I was very apologetic!

Did you make him any offer to buy it? Wouldn‘t that have been a solution?

 

[two_bit_score]

I was involved in more than one survey that went to court over pieces of land that were probably worth a few hundred dollars. Most of the time it seemed like there were bad feelings between adjoining owners that may or may not of had anything to do with the boundary.

More than one time I heard people say there wasn’t a problem until the surveyor showed up. I always answered this by saying you had a problem, you just didn’t know it.

Yeah, but who would they call when they need help with a disputed property line?

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Tree limbs growing over a neighbors property tend to usually cause issues.

As I understand the rules, if the limbs are over your property, you have the right to cut. However, the neighbors can/will get upset and claim your cuts damaged their trees.

My Dad had issues with neighbors and their large trees with dead branches over his fence and shed.

Sure enough, one storm came and the dead branch broke damaging the fence and shed.

The insurance companies fought it out and covered the damages.

MoKelly

Whether you can cut or prune a tree overhanging your property is State dependent. Different States have different laws, and judicial decisions. You County Agent can probably clarify what it is where you live.

 

[dodge man]

Shared driveways can be another problem between adjoiner.

 

[fried1765]

Did you make him any offer to buy it? Wouldn‘t that have been a solution?

No.....that would not have been a solution.
I learned from others that he NEVER had sold any land.
He owned another very large piece of land worth several million, and had repeatedly refused to sell.

 

[MoKelly]

Whether you can cut or prune a tree overhanging your property is State dependent. Different States have different laws, and judicial decisions. You County Agent can probably clarify what it is where you live.

In Missouri you can cut back all branches to the property line.

MoKelly

 

[two_bit_score]

No.....that would not have been a solution.
I learned from others that he NEVER had sold any land.
He owned another very large piece of land worth several million, and had repeatedly refused to sell.

Understandable. I am much more often the buyer than seller these days.

 

[check]

Yes indeed, surveys and legal descriptions can get quite complicated. I bought a waterfront property about 10 years ago that was 25 acres, and had 2 right of ways. Plus, one corner of the lot was in the middle of a road. One of the right of ways was in my favor, over the back end of some 10 other lots or so. And my lawyer discovered that the wording of that particular right of way was incorrect, so we had the clerk change the records.

Finally, part of the property was zoned “rural“ and another part was zoned “commercial“. The commercial part is gold, because it allows me to build as many “housekeeping cottages and cabins“ as I want! And it also came with three septic fields, which are also gold, because normally you are only allowed one.

 

[California]

Take a look at the lower-center of this map. (zoom in). Township/Range boundaries are far from rectangular in some cases. 'Barstool surveying' was suspected (never walked the land). Also mineralization affected magnetic compasses, but they should have been calibrated to astronomical (?) references.

Weber's Map of Plumas County California . . 1914 - Barry Lawrence Ruderman Antique Maps Inc.

www.raremaps.com

We filed a mining claim in that region that was still in unsurved territory at the time. So 'from where east branch x creek separates from west branch, up to the boundary of [private land owned by a logging company, former patented claim], and excepting land described in [prior adjacent claim]". Real old school.

Here's a more detailed view of historic mining claims (some patented) within T21N R9E of that map.

Rich Gold Deposits of Plumas County

westernmininghistory.com

 

[dodge man]

It’s not unusual for township political boundaries not to match up with the surveyed ones. It’s also not uncommon that shortcuts were taken by the original township surveys when they laid out each section. Like already mentioned they sometimes were done on paper and didn’t do the field work.

In most parts of Illinois where I have worked it was surveyed with a compass and a 33 foot long chain(a two pole chain). The accuracy was somewhere around 1 in100. This means for every 100 foot they measured they had about 1 foot of error. This would mean in a half mile they would have 26 feet of error. Sometimes they did better, sometimes worse. This took place about 1816.

 

[kenmac]

By "Bamboo" do you mean Japanese Knotweed?Japanese Knotweed That's nasty stuff if it gets established. You can pour a concrete slab over it, and still have shoots grow out from underneath. It was planted as an ornamental for years and is almost impossible to get rid of, short of scorched earth chemical treatments.

that's correct. I had it when I lived in the city. Round up won't touch the stuff. I rented a mini ex and dug it all up. The hard part was finding /digging up all the rhizomes. If you leave any, that bamboo is coming back !

 

[goeduck]

I also have waterfront (saltwater in my case) property and own tidelands out to extreme low tide. The angle of how it goes out (it is not a direct extension of the upland property line) is a bit unknown to me. There are state regs describing it.

Turns out no one cares, it is not like you can tell where you are when you are 500 feet out. What we do care about is clam diggers, etc. thinking the tidelands are public.

 

[Jstpssng]

that's correct. I had it when I lived in the city. Round up won't touch the stuff. I rented a mini ex and dug it all up. The hard part was finding /digging up all the rhizomes. If you leave any, that bamboo is coming back !

Roundup does knock it back somewhat, but you have to keep after it. The best way is to mow it, treat the stumps, then keep hitting the young shoots as they come up. My father killed a big patch with Roundup years ago when he moved into my grandfather's house, but back then he might not have paid strict attention to what the label said. Yet we still have it coming up all over the place, not where it originally grew.

 

[two_bit_score]

Closed on my new parcel last week. My surveyor did a great job locating a discrepancy between what was on the ground, under fence and the deed description.

He also did the research to show that the deed discrepancy was due to a typo error that was carried over. We got the adjoining owner to sign off on a quit claim deed for the discrepancy and the title company had no problem including that portion in their coverage.

It all worked out well. And much, much better than if I had not had the survey and had constructed a building on the portion of the discrepancy and found out about it later.

The survey work probably cost me a little more but the seller paid for the additional deed work. I felt like my money for the survey was well spent.