Something went wrong after Hyd oil change.

[racerboy832]

Just changed all the Fluids on my Deutz Allis 5220 HST. I matched up some filters with the ones that came off the machine ( Yes I know it's a no no). Bought 10 Gallons of Travelers Tractor Premuim Fluid that is for the trans/hydraulics. It says right on is the correct fluid for what my manual calls for. So I dump the old fluid , change everything. Try it out for a couple minutes and seems ok. Next day try it and it goes drives slow, the backhoe has a seperate pump and the PTO will stop when you put a load on it. I switched back to the original filter and it's no better. The one thing I did notice before was that when I pulled the hydraulic pump filter only the amount in the filter would drain. Now when I pulled it, it would keep draining out of the holes around the threaded part. It pumped out about a gallon before I could spin the old filter on. Is it possible the new Fluid it too thin? or did I screw something up with the filters. It was run for a total of about 4 minutes and made no bad sounds.

 

[bp fick]

I'll share a story that will help, perhaps.

I attached a new FEL to my tractor. I was re-filled my hydro with maybe 3 quarts of fluid from TSC. The same premium stuff too that says meets my tractor's specs. I told myself, it was just a top off, what could it hurt? But given my tractor is a sub compact, that 3 quarts was likely 30% of its total volume.

I had squealing, foaming, and a jerky FEL. It wasn't good. I drained everything and re-filled with the SUDT that came from the dealer. Yes, it was a bit more pricey. Immediately, my tractor was back to normal. So, my tractor got a 50 hour service. OK, I can live with that.

If you used generic filters, plus you used generic fluid it is indeed possible your tractor simply does not care them. Seems a stretch, but one never knows. For sure, generic filters can be a crap shoot.

Cannot imagine you harming your machine in 4 minutes. That's barely up to operating temperature. That's the good news, I would think.

The bad news is that you may end up going to your dealer, getting his stuff and trying again.

 

[kebo]

To reiterate a thread I had going in the MF forum, my hunt club bought a '59 TO35 last year. The tranny/hyd's had water in it due to a dry rotted rubber boot on the shift lever. We drained, flushed, and put in a standard tractor/trans hyd fluid. I think it was GL5 rated that we put in. The lift would not work reliablely or consistently after that. Of course, we had no way of knowing how well/poor it worked before we got it either, since the seller had taken it in on a trade. We later found out what the proper fluid was for that tractor and just a couple weeks ago we finally got around to putting in the proper GL1 mineral based 90wt fluid in it. The three pt lift responded almost immediately by working much better. It still isn't "perfect", but better. Maybe good enough to get us through the mowing and planting this fall. We may yet have to dig into the hyd. system to find out what the real problem is but it was very obvious the correct fluid made a big difference. The GL1 mineral based 90wt oil we put in was much thicker than the tractor/trans fluid we drained out of it, that seems to be the key in our case.

So, maybe you should spend the bucks and get the right stuff and see how that does? You won't know until you try.

 

[racerboy832]

I checked in my Manual and it said to you ( Powerfluid 821 ), It says right on the 5 gallon jug that this was the correct match to the fluid. I'm thinking it might be air bound, why else would it keep pushing the fluid out of the filter when it was removed.

 

[JoelD]

I've not yet seen a hydraulic system air bound they all ultimately breath and have a vent somewhere
I'd be surprised if it was air locked

maybe something came loose and is impeeding flow somewhere?
Good luck

also would be good if you could get a meter hooked up to see if there is presure
Joel

 

[racerboy832]

The part that bothers me is it was fine before I changed the oil. I don't think there is any screens on that one, just the filters, I cut one filter in half to see if there was anything in it and it looked fine.

 

[mmurphy]

I find it hard to believe that the oil if it was a ISO standard would have hurt anything. Cross reference filters if right, should not cause that problem either.
I think it was stated a hydro? Might want to check in Deutz Allis forum to see if it is something needed to bleed in hydro. Not really a clue what that tractor has but according to this TractorData.com Deutz-Allis 5220 tractor information you need alot more oil then 10 galons.
Shows 31 galons. I am not sure if that is correct, but may want to double check.

 

[bp fick]

You said: "matched up some filters with those that came off the machine"

matched up how? visual? thread and gasket match?

Did you go to Wixfilters web page and actually look it up? Hastings filters also have a website where you can get a true match up, by the numbers.

Since your tractor is a late 80s early 90s model, is that right?, hard to believe that the the fluid you used wouldn't be suitable, as it likely is better fluid today than the specs of that era. But whether the volume amount is correct and whether you truly used compatible filters remains questionable.

So, you've put the original, old filters back on? Problem remains?

 

[racerboy832]

I can't find a Deutz Allis forum. 7 Gallons came out and went back in, I put the original filters back on and same problem. I'm going to try to open the little bleeders on top of the banjo bolts to see if any air comes out.

 

[Soundguy]

i'd be more inclied to think it was a filter issue.

I'd put the correct filters on all over it.. top off oil and run it thru some un laoded paces for a minute or two in case it has air inthe system.. then check the fluid again. look for foaming in the fluid... that's about the only issue a 'wrong' fluid could give you in that short amount of time if the viscosity was at least 'close'.. IMHO.

soundguy

 

[bp fick]

Is there a sight glass or dipstick? How do you determine the level is correct?

All these tractors are a bit different, but surely there is a "full" or "low" level indicator of some kind?

 

[racerboy832]

I'm waiting on the filters now. I put the original ones back on. The part that has me stumped is before when I was on a hill and put the clutch in it would free roll, Now it holds pressure and sounds like it's spinning the gears backwards. There was also pressure still in the big suction filter as oil kept coming out of it when I removed the filter. I know hydaulic fluid won't hold pressure but air will. It they are self bleeding then I don't see how it can get air pressure built up.

 

[racerboy832]

It's a dip stick.

 

[bp fick]

Photos might be helpful.

In any case, if the fluid was put back into the proper opening(s) as some tractors have more than one, then this surely sounds like a vent plugged somewhere. Just not familiar enough with this tractor. Do you have or can you find online some schematics of the system? Sometimes parts blow up drawings are very helpful. These call out various parts and can help identify something for you to have an Ah Ha!! moment.

 

[racerboy832]

I looked all over, the only thing I can think is there is air trapped in the highest part which is the oil cooler. This would kinda explain why it was pushing fluid out of it while it was parked with the oil filter off.

 

[jlsmith]

Go back with MF oils! I had a MF596 in my shop doing a hyd oil and filter change and my guy put a off brand oil in it (which stated was for MF tractors) and the lift and the brakes would not work. Had to drain it and go back with MF brand oil and never had any other trouble out of it.

 

[brucew44guns]

I personally do not believe that the filters you put on are causing this problem, nor the oil for that matter. The aftermarket oil and filters may not be of premium quality comapred to the dealers brand, but in new condition should work fine. I think you have a seperate problem that came along at this worst of moments, that confuse what is going on.

 

[racerboy832]

The only thing that baffles me is it worked fine before the oil change. That and the oil kept flowing out of the filter housing. It make me think that there was pressure somewhere. If the system wasn't venting I could see it or air bubble. I just ordered a Manual.

 

[LostInTheWoods]

OK. Take this for what its worth, which likely isn't much. I am NOT an expert in anything mechanical. I know where the fuel goes in, and I can change the fluids, but I don't know much more than that.

To the point, I overheard a couple of gear-heads talking filters a few weeks ago. The details are a bit sketchy, because I only partially understand what they were talking about. The gist of the conversation was something along the lines of some generic filters being crap, and the filter's innards are actually sucked out and into the system, doing whatever it is a sucked out innard would do to a machine.

I don't know if that's even possible, but that's what I got out of it...:confused3:

 

[racerboy832]

Yep, that passed through my mind too so I cut the outer shell off the new filter. Everything was still there. If I saw something missing i'd prolly sell the Front loader and backhoe off of it..