Soil Analysis help appreciated

[EddieWalker]

I sent off two soil samples to Texas A&M's Soil, Water and Forage Testing Labratory. Welcome to Texas A&M University Soil, Water and Forage Testing Laboratory

The Ag Extension in Tyler gave me the waxed paper bags to put the dirt in and instructions on what to do. Basically, you take small amounts of dirt from all over the area you want tested, then mix it all together. Then you take that mixed up dirt and put it in the bag. I requested a routine soil analysis, which cost $10 each. There are more details samples that you can request that cost more money.

I have one area in my front pasture that I want to grow bermuda grass, but nothing grows there. The other area is where I want to put my food plot. I've removed allot of dirt from there, so what I have left is soil that's never grown anything. I want to plant peas and wheat there on a rotational basis.

Here is the result for my front pasture where nothing grows and I want to grow bermuda grass for livestock sometime in the future.



Analysis Results Critical Level Fertilizer Recommended

pH 4.3 (5.8) Strongly Acid
Conductivity 32 (-) None
Nitrate-N 1 (-) 55 lbs N/acre
Phosphorus 1 (50) ExLow 65 lbs P205/acre
Potassium 28 (125) VLow 90 lbs K20/acre
Calcium 167 (180) Mod 120 lbs Ca/acre
Magnesium 106 (50) High 0 lbs Mg/acre
Sulfer 53 (13) VHigh 0 lbs S/acre

Limestone Requirement 1.00 tons 100ECCE/acre



This is the analysis for my food plot to grow peas.

Analysis Results Critical Level Fertilizer Recommended

pH 5.3 (6.5) Mod. Acid
Conductivity 50 (-) None
Nitrate-N 2 (-) ExLow 15 lbs N/acre
Phosphorus 2 (50) ExLow 75 lbs P205/acre
Potassium 76 (130) Mod 20 lbs K20/acre
Calcium 645 (180) High 0 lbs Ca/acre
Magnesium 192 (50) High 0 lbs Mg/acre
Sulfer 23 (13) High 0 lbs S/acre
Sodium 148 (-) Low

Limestone Requirement 1.00 tons 100ECCE/acre



And this is the same field for the food plot as the peas, but a seperate report for wheat.

Analysis Results Critical Level Fertilizer Recommended

pH 5.3 (6.5) Mod. Acid
Conductivity 50 (-) None
Nitrate-N 2 (-) ExLow 75 lbs N/acre
Phosphorus 2 (50) ExLow 100 lbs P205/acre
Potassium 76 (130) Mod 45 lbs K20/acre
Calcium 645 (180) High 0 lbs Ca/acre
Magnesium 192 (50) High 0 lbs Mg/acre
Sulfer 23 (13) High 0 lbs S/acre
Sodium 148 (-) Low

Limestone Requirement 1.00 tons 100ECCE/acre

Here are my questions.

Do I just bring this report to the store and ask for so many pounds of each type specified? I'm guessing that it comes in sacks and I just spread it one at a time. Is that right? Then I disk it in and then I can spread the sead. Is that right?

The analysis has different amounts for the wheat and the peas, even though it's the same place, just diffent times of the year. Is it correct to assume that I add the difference from the first treatment to the next? Or do I spread the exact amounts specified in the anyalysis each time I plant a new crop? Or do I take another analyisis before planting each crop? It's just a food plot, so I'm not real concerned with being exact, but I would like for the plants to grow and do well.

I'm totally ignorant on what I'm doing here, so it's very likely that I'm not even asking all the questions that I need to ask. If theres's something that you think I should know, please feel free to offer any and all suggestions.

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[charlz]

The analysis has different amounts for the wheat and the peas, even though it's the same place, just different times of the year. Is it correct to assume that I add the difference from the first treatment to the next? Or do I spread the exact amounts specified in the analysis each time I plant a new crop? Or do I take another analysis before planting each crop? It's just a food plot, so I'm not real concerned with being exact, but I would like for the plants to grow and do well.

Peas and Wheat have different requirements because they are different crops. Peas need less N as they fix their own nitrogen from the air. (actually a bacteria that grows with the roots does this but whatever) Peas are a legume and all legumes can fix their own nitrogen, in fact they will fix more than they can use so they actually improve the soil for the next crop.

Ideally you would test the soil before every crop and apply what you need. I don't know if you really need to do that by it may be helpful when first getting started.

 

[randy41]

what is the area of the fields? did you take the soil samples from the surface?

 

[Egon]

I'd take the analysis to the local fertilizer dealer and see what he recommends.

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Eddie,

The first thing to do is get the lime applied. One ton per acre sounds low to me, but if that's what the test shows, then start out that way and do another test. It takes a good while for the lime to be assimilated into the soil. Ideally you would put the lime out in the fall ahead of the spring planting season.

Find a source for bulk lime....feed stores, coops etc. Don't buy it by the bag, way more expensive. Same for fertilizer...but it depends on the size of your plots...if small, then the spreader guys may not take the job and you will have to do it by the bag and do it yourself.

Regarding fertilizer. Buy a fertilizer for specific plots that most closely matches your analysis ratios. For example, for the bermuda plot, that is a 1-1-2 ratio approximately. You probably won't find that exact ratio, but a 13-13-13 is pretty close and very commonly available. To get 55 pounds of N per acre using 13-13-13, you would need to apply 425 pounds of fertilizer per acre.....13% of 425 is about 55 pounds of N.

Work the other areas the same way.


Those areas that have never grown anything probably need more than just chemicals...they probably need to have the organic matter in the soil built up and may need an application of gypsum if its tight clay. One thing I'd consider is to try to find a source of natural fertilizers, chicken farms, ranches, etc. and put out manure and disk it in. That would go a long way toward improving the soil, getting all those invaluable microbes going, and suport a small crop.

 

[MarkV]

Eddie are these areas large enough and accessible enough to get a spreader truck from a local fertilizer company in? Buying lime by the bag to use in a cone spreader gets real pricey if you have much area to do. The last I bought was $3.80 per 40lbs. bag. Ag lime is much cheaper but does not spread with a cone spreader worth a darn. If you do try Ag lime with a cone spreader be sure to wear a respirator and eye protection the stuff can do bad things to you.

MarkV

 

[4720 OWNER]

Used to be manure was one of the best, and i think there was(is) a whole science about it. Now they are talking about how much chemicals are secreted by farm animals in their manure it can affect the soil! So i am pickier about where it comes from if go to an outside source. Guess organic farms can charge now for chemical free manure?

Also have read about specific bacteria in the soil that eat antibiotics specifically have been discovered. What have we wrought??

 

[EddieWalker]

charlz,

Thanks for your reply. I've been reading up on food plots and what grows well in my area, which lead me to cowpeas and winter wheat done in rotation. I'm also thiking about vitch, which is supposed to be good for improving the soils too. I have no experience with any of this, just what I'm reading and learning from threads on TBN.

Randy,

The first sample that is for bermuda grass is probaly close to half an acre. I went to the middle of six different bare spots in that field and dug a hole shovel deep. Then I took a slice of dirt that went from the surface to the bottom of the hole and put that in a pile. I did this at each hole so that I had dirt from all six areas and dirt from the surface down to the length of a shovel blade. I mixed it all together and then filled my sample bag with that mixture.

The food plot sample is an acre in size and done the same way. I'm not positive if I took six samples, or more. The process was the same, but my holes were dug based on covering the area.

Egon,

Taking the results of the samples to the farm supply store is the only plan that I've come up with. They have the seeds for what I think is a good price. I forget what that is right now, but when they told me the price a few months ago, I thought that it was pretty cheap.

I'm hoping to get some real world advice from some of you who have done this before and maybe help me understand what I'm getting into so that when I get the dirt work done, I'll be able to have a plan of action.

ML,

Thank you for taking the time for such a detailed reply.

I'm still moving dirt and have about a thousand yards to go before I'm ready to do anything to the soil. I could probably start disking next weekend for the actual food plot, but I want to get the rest of the field graded so that I can catch another couple dozen acres of water runnoff for my lake. No project has just one goal, and this one has an entire list of things that I want to achieve when it's done. LOL

I might be rushing things by trying to plant cowpeas this spring, but will try something no matter how late in the season it is. Then in the fall, I'll disk it in and plant wheat. As soon as I get it graded, I'll get the lime and disk it in. With just an acre and one ton listed, I'll probably just have a yard dumped into my pickup truck and spread it with a shovel as Steph drives though the field real slow. I've shoveld several tons of gravel and sand for making cement in a day, so a ton of lime shouldn't be that bad.

How long would you wait after applying lime in my situation before adding the other stuff and planting the peas? Do you think I'm rushing things by planting peas this season?

Thank you for the tip on buying fertilizer. I didn't consider them. For the small areas that I'm working on, that will probably be what I end up doing. I was sort of thinking that the farm store would have sacks of each thing that I needed and I'd buy them in the amount required. Now I wonder if that is even possible?

I've seen manure advertised before in the classified ads, but have never thought of buying any. For what I'm doing, I can see how that would be a really good idea. Does it make sense to have a few yards dumped onto my 16 foot trailer? I can cover it with a tarp and then just do the old shovel it out while being pulled around by Steph.

Mark,

I don't know what the minimums are for the fertilizer companies are for them to come out and spread the lime, but I'm guessing that I'm working on too small of an area for them to deal with. At just a ton per acre, and less then two acres total, I can do it fairly quickly on my own.

I plan to buy the lime by the yard. They will dump it into the bed of my tuck, which is the cheapest wat that I know of to get it. Then I was thinking of loading it into my seed spreader, which is a pull behind thing that I bought from northern tool. It will hold 100 pounds of seed. Then I got to thinking that if I'm shoveling it into the spreader, I can save a step and just shovel it out the back of my truck directly onto the field an save a few steps.

4720,

I hadn't considered that there is good manure and bad manure. Since this is just for fun and I'm not worried about maximising my plant growth, just getting them to grow, I'll probably end up buying manure from a local small scale ranch. I don't know one way or anohter, but feel safe assuming that what I end up with should be safe for growing food plots to feed the deer and hogs.

Thank you for all your replies,
Eddie

 

[meadowlarkponds]

...How long would you wait after applying lime in my situation before adding the other stuff and planting the peas? Do you think I'm rushing things by planting peas this season?


Does it make sense to have a few yards dumped onto my 16 foot trailer? I can cover it with a tarp and then just do the old shovel it out while being pulled around by Steph.

Eddie

Eddie,

Depending on rainfall, soil conditions, how fine the ag. lime is, etc. it can take different times to be assimilated. The thing about lime and why I recommended you get it out first, in addition to assimilation time, is that the lime will help make your fertilizer far more efficient....plants will be able to make use of the fertilizer much,much better if the lime is present and assimilated. Otherwise, fertilizing first will end up wasting product.

The peas are a great choice for your area and soils...they fix N in the soils so planting them well before the winter wheat is a great approach. Make sure you innoculate the peas or add innoculant to the soil to make sure you get the N fixing going right.

It makes a lot of sense to me to dump a few yards of manure on YOUR TRAILER and YOU SHOVEL it. . That stuff also needs some time to assimilate, but nothing like the ag. lime.

If it were me, and knowing you want to get something out this season, I'd just go ahead and get the lime out ASAP, then follow that with the manure, then begin planting and fertilizing...the problem is that it is getting late to catch this spring growing season. I don't know how late you can wait and reasonably expect the cow peas to make in your area, but I would guess, and its just a guess that if you don't get them out by mid-May, you probably should wait until fall. The lack of moisture and the heat will make it tough on the peas...but ask someone in your area, at the feed store where you buy the peas. They would know better than my limited knowledge.

 

[randy41]

i second the lime first suggestion and you can spread it best with a pull behind your riding mower spreader. the area you need to cover is not very much.
as for the other fertilizer you need i would just go buy some 10-10-10 at the big box store and read the directions on the bag leaning toward the heavy application side. if the soil is very hard then some disking after spreading will work to get it into the soil and keep it from just washing away. you can seed and fertilize at the same time.

 

[Egon]

Some forms of lime take longer to become effective.

 

[schmism]

I'll probably end up buying manure from a local small scale ranch. I don't know one way or anohter, but feel safe assuming that what I end up with should be safe for growing food plots to feed the deer and hogs.

Thank you for all your replies,
Eddie

never pay for manure! check craigslist or put a post up. stop by at the local horse stable that services rideing horses. they are usually all to happy to have you haul off there manure for free. (they will often load your truck)

If you have pig farms in the area (i do) they use a semi liquid injector and pull a huge tanker rig out in the feild and spred the manure that way. If you have one close (i do) you might be able to have him out. (but on second thought its a huge rig that may not like small area;s (anything under 5 acers)

 

[EddieWalker]

ML,

After moving another few hundred yards this weekend, I'm reconsidering my timeline. With your advice about the lime and giving it time to do it's thing, and how slow I am at moving the dirt that I want to move, I think that just getting the dirt to where I want it might be all that I get done until the fall.

I can spread the lime, disk it in and add manure over the summer when I come across it. Then I'll take some soil samples for wheat and go from there. That might be more realistic and maybe even better for my long term goals.

Thank you.

Randy,

My spreader is pretty small, so just throwing out the lime from my truck bed sounds like it would be faster and easier. My new goal is to get the lime out this spring/summer so that I'll be ready for fall planting of wheat. Then I can amend the soil in the fall so that I will be ready for cowpeas next spring.

Egon,

I think we only have the one type of lime to chose from. You either buy what they have, or you don't get any. I have no idea if it's what you are refering to or not, but I'll just deal with whatever it is.

schmism,

Thanks, that's good advice. It costs nothing to post on craigslist, so when I get the field ready and have my lime down, I'll get serious about finding a source of manure. In the meantiime, I'll pay attention to the ads for anybody offering it for free.

Here is the link to my progress on my food plot. As you can see, I still have allot of work to do.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1382478#post1382478

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[mrob2012003]

I would take the info up to a local fertilizer place there is one in lindale. Something to remember you took soil samples from the dead areas but what about the growth areas. I am sure that the entire field needs it. I am not sure about the amount of time you have but for me its more cost effective just to have them spread it for me. When you factor in the time it takes to pick up the lime, spread, it fuel used in a tractor etc and truck. You will find it equals out in the end. I like to do things myself too but I find I just dont have the time to do it all.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life. I've been thinking about it lately and wanting to get the rest of the pasture graded before spring. It's becoming top priority for me right now!!!

Are you refering to the fertilizer place north of Lindale on 69, to the left? I went there one time to see about lime, but they were out as I was too late in the year. When is the best time to go there?

I have five soil analyiss bags that I picked up last week and was going to get on that real soon. Maybe today before the storms hit.

I was going to just spread some lime over the entire field since it sounded like a good idea to me, but I'm not sure if I should disk or do something to the soil that the grass is currently growing on. Do you just spread lime over the grass and let it work it's way into the soil on it's own?

After grading and liming the soil, I was going to take the analysis to the fertalizer place, or the feed store on 69 in Lindale and see what they have. I was thinking of just buying what I needed and spreading it myself. I'll ask to see what it costs to have it mixed and have them spread it. Maybe having it all done at once will be cheaper. It should be faster, and that counts for something too!!!

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[tommu56]

Eddie see if they have a tow behind spreader our local fertilizer place has them for use if you by the material from them. some are self powered and some need a pto it will make your chore easier.

They can mix the lime and fertilizer all in the same cart at the same time and tell you how to set it to get the coverage you will need
tom

 

[MarkV]

Eddie, spreading AG lime yourself, unless you have the specialized equipment, is not a fun project. It does not go through a cone spreader very well unless very dry. It is also very dusty, not good for you, if you can get it dry enough to work. The tow behind spreaders are a great option if you have open property and an adequate tow vehicle. The ones here do not have brakes.

If you can get a spreader truck in it is by far the cheapest way to go. I have to use pelletized lime and it becomes very pricey for the volume I need.

The soil test would be a good idea. No reason to put more lime or the wrong mix of fertilizer down if you don't need it.

MarkV

 

[Stimw]

I bought a deluxe test kit at ACE Hardware for $16. that lets you do your own testing and tells how much to add to bring soil in line. It tests for ph , Nitrogen, Phosphate and Potash.
It's really simple, you take the sample add distilled water and color coded capsules depending on what you are testing for and then you compare results to a color chart. I have a dehumidifier so I have all the distilled water I need. You can use bottled water too.

 

[KentT]

I was going to just spread some lime over the entire field since it sounded like a good idea to me, but I'm not sure if I should disk or do something to the soil that the grass is currently growing on. Do you just spread lime over the grass and let it work it's way into the soil on it's own?

Eddie,

Couple things:

1. You can put lime on top of the grass and it won't hurt a thing. In fact, since you have clay soil, I'd have the local coop/fertilizer store lime all of the cleared property that they can drive their big spreader-trucks over (just keep them off your septic system). You'll be amazed at how it make your grass greener and grow faster everywhere, because it allows the grass to process the other nutrients that are already there in the soil.

2. Lime WILL NOT burn plants, and will do NO harm unless you literally dump a pile of it somewhere. Don't be overly concerned with "fine-tuning" the lime application from one plot or area to another. It appears all your clay soil is fairly acidic. In comparison, nitrogen (especially) will burn plants and must be more carefully measured and accurately applied.

3. If you spread lime before you perform soil tests, you'll get an inaccurate reading on the PH (the "lime factor") for probably at least siz months. It takes that long for it to completely break down. I don't think it will effect any of the other measurements, however.

4. Unless you buy pelletized lime in bags (which has "glue" added to it to make granules), it has the consistency of something like baking flour or portland cement. It doesn't spread well in normal fertizer spreaders, and is a messy, messy job to spread by hand. Be sure to wear a mask if you try it, and be prepared to get covered from head to toe. If you have enough cleared property to warrant it (even your lawn) I have a truck deliver and spread it. You'd likely be both time and money ahead, buying it in bulk. The only caution would be run-off into Lake Marabou, if you had a downpour immediately after. You want gentle rains to dissolve it and let it soak into the ground.

 

[Ridgewalker]

For what it's worth...I recently found the site below and ordered a home soil PH testing kit. It came with a vial and enough testing material to do 50 tests. It was a little over $20.00 for the kit.

Forestry Suppliers, Inc. 800-647-5368

I haven't tried it yet, too wet.

They also have lots of other cool stuff on their site. Quick delivery on the order to boot.