So, You think you own your land...

[cp1969]

If the property rights are split, why not split the taxes? I've always thought that anyone with an easement on a deed should pay a % of the property taxes.

That could be part of the easement language, could it not? I had never thought of that but it is a good idea.

 

[RedRocker]

How would you go about finding out who has the mineral rights to a piece of property?

 

[JazzDad]

"How would you go about finding out who has the mineral rights to a piece of property?"
They say it's all supposed to be in your deed records.

 

[JazzDad]

Link about recent benzene contamination. (This is where I used to live, hence my interest.) Continuation of Jones Road History of Actions - Texas Commission on Environmental Quality - www.tceq.state.tx.us

The cause here was not an injection well, but a small polluter. They really messed up a lot of folks water.

 

[KaiB]

Jazz, I'm familiar with that case. It is not benzene, but rather dry cleaning solvents (PCE,TCE).

These things happen, and yes, its a mess.

 

[VA_Joe]

Ummm, maybe. My opinion is, however, that additional taxes are rarely, if ever, the solution to a problem.

I agree - taxes suck. However - not having clear ownership/title could suck more. Just pointing out that property taxes have a useful, secondary purpose.

Joe

 

[VA_Joe]

"How would you go about finding out who has the mineral rights to a piece of property?"
They say it's all supposed to be in your deed records.

Although they are recorded - it may be difficult locating the true owner. Many date back multiple generations with multiple heirs who might not even realize that they own it or just don't care. In some cases, these folks (or corporate successors) might be located via companies interested in mining/drilling the property (and only if they decide the rights are worth something). However - in the large majority of cases - the rights sit with little prospect they will ever be used and without clear ownership. As an earlier poster said - it would make sense if there was some scheme to revert the rights back to the surface owners after a fixed period of time - whether it be through property taxes or some other legal mechanism (such as declaring abandonment).

In any case - my two cents.

Joe

 

[horse7]

To answer your one lucid question, I have no problem whatsoever drinking benzene at a level of 5ppb. I could do so for thirty years at a rate of 2 Liters a day and not be concerned.

5ppb seems to be the current EPA limit (MCL). For those that are counting, this is somewhere around 0.12 ml (0.1g) over 30yr consumption as specified (if I got my numbers right this late at night...). [and the EPA regs say benzene can cause anemia for long term consumption "over the MCL level"]

Note that the EPA has an MCLG (goal) of 0, not 5. I am not convinced, even though the quantity is quite small, that 5ppb is is of no concern[1] just because current research supports the 5ppb level. The Fed used to say asbestos was acceptable in the workplace at a far higher level than permitted now and look what happened.
[1] the risk level might very well be small compared to other risks, and therefore can be neglected. This is not the same as safe; and there are likely wide differences in sensitivity due to genotype and phenotype variations. Note that the risk of having hydrocarbon fluids repeatedly on the hands might very well dwarf the 5ppb benzene risk.

Bureaucratically, someone has to come up with some number as a practical limit and presently 5ppb for benzene is it. Salut! Enjoy your benzene, live long and prosper!

 

[BTDT]

I think that now, with them drilling on DFW airport property, and their latest, wanting to drill on school properties, one accident will change a whole lot of how they do things.

I applaud your efforts to get the message out. Texans are amazing, and together a lot of things change due to someone speaking out. This comes to mind. Amber Hagerman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think most folks have heard of the Amber alert program, may your cause be as well publicized and accepted.

 

[RedRocker]

Although they are recorded - it may be difficult locating the true owner. Many date back multiple generations with multiple heirs who might not even realize that they own it or just don't care. In some cases, these folks (or corporate successors) might be located via companies interested in mining/drilling the property (and only if they decide the rights are worth something). However - in the large majority of cases - the rights sit with little prospect they will ever be used and without clear ownership. As an earlier poster said - it would make sense if there was some scheme to revert the rights back to the surface owners after a fixed period of time - whether it be through property taxes or some other legal mechanism (such as declaring abandonment).

In any case - my two cents.

Joe

Thanks guys.

 

[Unclebuck257]

I think that now, with them drilling on DFW airport property, and their latest, wanting to drill on school properties, one accident will change a whole lot of how they do things.

I applaud your efforts to get the message out. Texans are amazing, and together a lot of things change due to someone speaking out. This comes to mind. Amber Hagerman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think most folks have heard of the Amber alert program, may your cause be as well publicized and accepted.

THANK YOU!!! We are REALLY trying to get the word out and educate the citizens of Texas through our public speaking engagements throughout the Barnett Shale counties and well beyond.

It's really amazing that most folks who attend, initially do not have any idea what is pressure injected into those injection wells and the ground under and around their homes, water wells, and land. The oil and gas industry has done a very good job of covering all that information up for decades.

 

[ldabe]

Unclebuck257,
Your arguments and words have been very enlighting in this topic. I applaud you!
As I have noticed between you and another poster, as I have run into similar situations...the closer someone is to the Government (or the more directly the Government lines their pockets) the more SENSITIVE they become, and the less FACTS they will deal with.
Btw, if that "small group of 44" ever decides they want to finally deal with the situation like our founding fathers did with King George...I would be more than happy to be the "point man"!
God bless you sir, and remember, this country was founded on God, Guts, and Guns...in that order.

 

[Unclebuck257]

Unclebuck257,
Your arguments and words have been very enlighting in this topic. I applaud you!
As I have noticed between you and another poster, as I have run into similar situations...the closer someone is to the Government (or the more directly the Government lines their pockets) the more SENSITIVE they become, and the less FACTS they will deal with.
Btw, if that "small group of 44" ever decides they want to finally deal with the situation like our founding fathers did with King George...I would be more than happy to be the "point man"!
God bless you sir, and remember, this country was founded on God, Guts, and Guns...in that order.

THANK YOU Idabe!!

I honestly believe that we've really jump started the citizens of Texas, that we've spoken to and beyond, with regard to making the necessary changes about allowing this unabated, state backed, toxic poluting and poisoning of our land and water to continue. I realize though too that the fight and education of the citizens of Texas has a long way to go regarding these toxic waste injection wells and the truth about them.

The oil and gas industry is, and has been, very smart in what they've done so far though because they put these toxic waste injection wells out in rural counties where the population is lower and therefore the ballot response impact for change won't hit them very hard. However, the education of the population in a number of those rural counties adds up quickly and now means that negative response numbers will be way up and impact will also be way up, to force the necessary changes in law eventually. We're adding more and more to the educated list every day too!

The people of Texas are the key, and the people who are being educated are getting very tired of being lied to, angry over decades of past lies, angry over the railroading they now see they're getting, and angry over the damages already done to our water and land. Changes regarding this subject are coming my friend and the people are the key to making those changes.

Thanks for your support and kind words!

 

[caver]

County in South Central Missouri, where my land is located, has had mineral exploration over the years. They changed their laws where the mineral rights owner has to pay part of the taxes. When Great Great Grandpa Cletus' heirs received a bill for taxes most signed them over to the present landowner.
This all per my lawyer used in this land transaction.

 

[txdon]

Caver, that is interesting. What part of the taxes is the mineral rights owner responsible for. Is the tax separate or a percentage of the surface taxation. Is this state tax or local tax?

 

[mikim]

heirs received a bill for taxes most signed them over to the present landowner.
I don't doubt it. Most would not want to continue paying taxes on a windfall that might happen. or most likely won't happen. It's a fine way for the surface owner to gain those rights ..... but I'm wondering , like Don, are those taxes part of the current surface taxes - or in addition to?

 

[Western]

I went through this last summer, They offered $5.oo acre for access to my land for sizmagraphing (spell check), when they finally showed up they went crazy with those big trucks, tore up my drive with those big trucks trying to cross a creek and got stuck. came in the back way where I told them in the first place and drove over several oak trees around 5-6" and took the bark off one thats probably 100 yrs old. I called the company since I had a contract which said they would be responsible for "surface damages" (DEvon)
They sent out a claims guy, real nice guy, said he had been running his butt of on the same type damages. He wrote me a check for $1500. I took it knowing my trees where probably worth more and I still find trash from the "crew" which I could'nt communicate with because of the language barrier. It wasnt about the $$ really it was the principal for me.
Had sam problem with an electric co. using sub contracter to clear lines, their 10' easment ( typical according to the Texas Utilities Comm) ended up about 50' of cut down oak trees left and not shredded just left, huge mess. for about 400'. they paid me too

 

[caver]

Seems like it was a percentage of the surface taxes,,,I could be wrong.
Taxes are county property (real estate) taxes.

 

[ldabe]

THANK YOU Idabe!!

I honestly believe that we've really jump started the citizens of Texas, that we've spoken to and beyond, with regard to making the necessary changes about allowing this unabated, state backed, toxic poluting and poisoning of our land and water to continue. I realize though too that the fight and education of the citizens of Texas has a long way to go regarding these toxic waste injection wells and the truth about them.

The oil and gas industry is, and has been, very smart in what they've done so far though because they put these toxic waste injection wells out in rural counties where the population is lower and therefore the ballot response impact for change won't hit them very hard. However, the education of the population in a number of those rural counties adds up quickly and now means that negative response numbers will be way up and impact will also be way up, to force the necessary changes in law eventually. We're adding more and more to the educated list every day too!

The people of Texas are the key, and the people who are being educated are getting very tired of being lied to, angry over decades of past lies, angry over the railroading they now see they're getting, and angry over the damages already done to our water and land. Changes regarding this subject are coming my friend and the people are the key to making those changes.

Thanks for your support and kind words!

Unclebuck257,

Came across this article on a financial site:

Today's Issue of Dr. Steve Sjuggerud's DailyWealth

(Aug 8th, 2007)
Three Oil Sand Investments No One's Thought Of
By Tom Dyson

Now I am not much for the "Greenpeace" organization, in fact, I think they are a little bit whacked out most of the time. So this is not an endorsement of them.

I won't quote the whole article, but here are a few snips from it:

"Current oil production is 1 million barrels of oil per day," she told me. "But did you know, they use 5 million barrels of water each day?"

"The water comes from the Athabasca River. By the time the companies are finished with it, the water so polluted with oil and chemicals, it instantly kills any animal that touches it. To protect the wildlife – which includes 150 different species of migratory bird – the oil companies line the banks of their tailings ponds with propane cannons. They fire these cannons every few minutes to scare the wildlife away."

Sounds a lot like what you were talking about in Texas.

Take care, and keep the fight hot.

God bless,
Abe.

 

[Unclebuck257]

Idabe,

Thanks for posting that and yup, that's exactly what I'm talking about with one little difference. That difference is how they are disposing of the water AFTER drilling and fracing operations. In the story you've posted, apparently the state they're in won't allow Injection Wells like Texas does, so they are pumping that liquid toxic waste into very large, above ground, man made toxic waste PONDS! Now, they're not actually as big as a lake would be, more like a BIG stock pond, but you get the picture. Colorado uses that method too, according to my friend who lives there.

After they pump that liquid toxic waste into that "pond" they leave it to the sun to evaporate the liquid out and then take the solid parts left and spread it out on some agreeable farmers land and till it in with the rest of the soil in that pasture. It's called "land farming" and they do it here in Texas too that way at times.

It's still toxic waste in solid form, or in the liquid that evaporated into the air. Makes you wonder how "fresh and clean" rain water really is at times, or how many old, grassy, fields are really toxic waste dumps just waiting to bite some innocent young family who buys a couple of acres and builds a house on it!