Snowblower Conversion

   / Snowblower Conversion #11  
Throwing 40lbs of snow 25' is still the same work, so they need about the same HP.

Where two stage snow blower excel is in moving heavy, wet snow. The main auger can move slowly, feeding the slush/snow to the second, high speed stage, which can shred, add enough air, and eject it at some distance. A single stage in wet heavy snow often overloads since one is usually trying to run the auger at a high enough speed to eject the snow somewhere and if the feed gets a little too much snow, everything gets choked up.

(We used to have a single stage, and it sucked at wet snow.)

Does that help?

All the best,

Peter

I thought I would bring this to the top to ask a question. I remember reading in another thread that duane said that his 425 didn't quite have enough guts for this snow blower, after all blowing snow is all about hp. So this got me thinking about Power Trac's snow blower. They have a 2 stage blower. Does a 2 stage blower require less power to operate effectively? Would it be a better choice to adapt a 2 stage to the PT?
 
   / Snowblower Conversion #12  
I thought I would bring this to the top to ask a question. I remember reading in another thread that duane said that his 425 didn't quite have enough guts for this snow blower, after all blowing snow is all about hp. So this got me thinking about Power Trac's snow blower. They have a 2 stage blower. Does a 2 stage blower require less power to operate effectively? Would it be a better choice to adapt a 2 stage to the PT?
To elaborate on why a two-stage snowblower requires less HP if you're dealing with heavy snow. The augur on a two-stage turns very, very slow in comparison to a single stage. All the augur on a two-stage does is pull and lift the snow up into the chute. There the much-smaller second stage, the impeller (which is spinning very fast) grabs that snow and forces it out the chute...

In comparison, a single-stage snowblower must spin that big augur fast enough to grab the snow and throw it up and out the chute in a single rotation. Spinning the augur that fast takes quite a bit of power, plus it makes it more sensitive to wetter, heavier snow. The augur, though spinning much faster than a two-stage, has much less torque -- torque is an inverse to speed.

The key to using a single-stage snowblower without clogging in wet/heavy snow is to vary the width of the cut and the ground speed as necessary to KEEP THE INTAKE FULL with a steady stream of snow. If that is flow is interrupted, it will often clog the chute when it tries to resume. As far as HP required to handle heavy snow, I've found that it helps to take a smaller cut, but drive faster in order to keep the intake full. You're using the drive wheels to push into the snow, rather than using the augur to pull the snow into the snowblower.

Note that this experience comes from using Simplicity single-stage snowblowers on 10HP and 12HP in wet, heavy, and sometimes deep Massachusetts snow. My 12HP tractor will run a 42" snowblower just fine. I know the mechanical/belt drive system is bit more efficient than hydraulics (not as much loss), I'd certainly think a 25 HP PT would handle at least a 48" single-stage...

Here's a photo of it in operation. You can see the "pulses" in the stream of snow coming out of the chute. Each pulse is caused by the augur rotating one complete turn:

62590879_0d993f8427.jpg


And here's a video of the 42" Simplicity single-stage in operation on this 12HP tractor, if you're interested.

YouTube - 1969 Simplicity 3112V Blowing Snow
 
   / Snowblower Conversion #13  
And here's a video of the 42" Simplicity single-stage in operation on this 12HP tractor, if you're interested.

YouTube - 1969 Simplicity 3112V Blowing Snow

I've got a similar snow thrower for our late 60's Simplicity Yoeman. It had lots of trouble with wet snow but could really fling the light stuff. I think it is only a 36". I should measure it. We don't get enough snow anymore to justify converting it to hydraulic for the PT, so I'll just stick with my plow blade, but I have thought it would be very very easy to convert. All I would need is a motor, some hoses and some metal for brackets.
 
   / Snowblower Conversion #14  
So if I put this all together in my little mind, I come to the conclusion that the PT would be better with a 2 stage even if it is just for the simple fact that i do need to move heavy wet snow at least 3/4 of the time.
 
   / Snowblower Conversion #15  
You're limited on a PT 422/425 to about 8HP or so (8gpm at 2500 PSI) at the PTO. That limits what you can do...

In general, I'd suggest the two stage is easier to use...

But, I personally prefer the single stage, though I'll admit that it took me a couple winters to learn how to use my Simplicity-mounted single stage effectively. I'd had both single-stage and two-stage walkbehinds before, but this was the first tractor-mounted one.

The single-stage will throw the snow MUCH farther in typical conditions. This allows you direct the snow where you want it, and to spread it, rather than building up snowbanks that will gradually encroach on the open area or limit what you can do. For example, here's a pic of a Simplicity 36" blower on a 10HP tractor that I started with.

Dcp00784.jpg


I recall a few years back when we had a pattern of Nor'easters where we got a 22" storm followed by a 28" storm within a few days of each other. I spent almost an entire weekend after that second storm digging out the neighborhood, local church, etc., using the little tractor shown above The people who used either plows or the most-common Ariens two-stage snowblowers had simply run out of room to put the snow. They had snowbanks six feet high or higher beside their driveways, and their two-stage blowers wouldn't throw the snow up and over those snowbanks, and those using plows simply had nowhere to put it. I went around, cutting their snowbanks down and throwing it 25 feet or more, spreading it out for them... I even did our street and sidewalks, since the snowbanks from the city's snowplows had narrowed the street so much that two cars couldn't pass. I cut those back, and spread the snow, then made a two passes on the sidewalks, and we were then prepared for the rest of the winter...

Your mileage and preferences may vary...
 
   / Snowblower Conversion #16  
KentT, could you describe what you learned that enabled you to use the single stage effectively, or do you have to learn it from just trying?
 
   / Snowblower Conversion #17  
KentT, could you describe what you learned that enabled you to use the single stage effectively, or do you have to learn it from just trying?

I think a lot of it is just experience, but I can provide a few tips:

1. Keep the "throat" of the chute rust-free to cut down on clogs. The curve of the throat tends to get sand-blasted and will develop surface rust. A good car wax helps keep it "slick" if you still have a good coat of paint. Since our town uses sand, instead of salt, I can't keep paint on mine -- it gets sand-blasted off. I typically just use a sheet of sand-paper to knock the surface rust off, then spray it with a spray lubricant each fall when I put them into service...

2. Spraying the throat with WD-40 or something like Pam spray oil (used for cooking) before each use will help, especially in wet, slushy snow.

3. As I said, the real key is keeping the "intake hopper" full and it throwing a steady stream of snow. The snow simply must go somewhere and it will keep moving it, if you keep feeding it a steady diet of all it can take. If you interrupt that flow, it can clog in the throat, especially in slush. When I first began with the little Simplicity above, it was a 3-speed gear-drive machine, and I'd try to use first gear almost all the time. I couldn't keep a steady stream going -- so when I started using 2nd gear I found that it worked much better. If the snow was deep, I'd simply take a smaller cut and still use 2nd gear. I'd use 1st gear only for the first, full-width cut. Now, I have one hydro and one variable-speed, so I have essentially infinite speed control, and it's a lot easier. I've literally "pumped slush" that was so heavy it couldn't throw it more than 3 or 4 feet, so I'd begin in the center of the driveway and work my way to the outside, "pumping" it as I went...

4. Always, always, always run at full-throttle with the augur turning as fast as it will turn. Watch the stream of snow coming out, and if it starts to "droop" a little bit, either speed up or take a wider cut. Listen to the engine for clues on "biting off more than it can chew" -- if the engine starts to slow down, take a smaller cut or slow down. Mine runs "on governor" essentially all the time that it's blowing snow, so you can identify the changes in eninge tone once you get used it. It takes a while watching the snow and listening to the engine to find the "sweet spot" for your machine.

5. You can often clear a clogged chute (as long as the augur is turning) by pushing into a snowbank. The "surge" of snow will often push the clog out, if it hasn't frozen in the chute... Always shut the machine completely down to clear a clog and NEVER use your hand to clear it -- use a large stick, broom handle, etc. A clog can build up "spring energy" that will move the augur when cheared -- these are VERY dangerous machines. On that note, keep everyone away from the front of the machine and the side where you're throwing snow...

6. Most have adjustable deflectors on the chute -- don't deflect the snow any more than necessary to avoid hitting things, or unless there's a strong wind you're dealing with. Deflecting the snow requires more power and can increase clogging -- let it "fire away" and throw it as far as it will go as much as possible. On that note, throw the snow downwind -- kinda like "don't spit in the wind"...

Those ideas come to mind... but a lot of it is just practice, I think... like many things with a tractor, such as bucket or minihoe work.

Here's what the sides of my driveway look like, all too often, in the winter:

Dcp00795.jpg


That, plus you have to deal with what the city snowplows keep piling up:

Dcp00791.jpg
 
Last edited:
   / Snowblower Conversion #18  
Nice tutorial. Sorry to make you do so much work writing it, but I think it will help many people.
 
   / Snowblower Conversion #19  
When comparing the two stage walk behind to the single stage tractor, is it possible it is because of a difference in HP etc? The two stage tractor snow blowers i have seen being used seem to throw the snow a large distance.

Ken
 
   / Snowblower Conversion #20  
When comparing the two stage walk behind to the single stage tractor, is it possible it is because of a difference in HP etc? The two stage tractor snow blowers i have seen being used seem to throw the snow a large distance.

Ken
That may be the case, Ken. My prievious experience was with an 8HP, 24" two-stage and a 7HP 22" single-stage walk-behind. In comparison, these tractors are 10HP driving a 36" single-stage or 12HP driving a 42" single-stage. Typically, they'll spread the snow 25-40 feet away, and can throw dry snow even farther if not fighting the wind.

As I said, I think the two-stage is easiest to use, especially in wet, heavy snow. But, I prefer these single stage -- it may just be my experience and personal preference...

Thinking about it more, though, I do need to retract an earlier statement in this thread -- because of the inefficiency (i.e. HP loss) of the hydraulic PTO on the PT 422/425, I think the 45" is pushing the upper limits. At 65% efficiency (Baum Hydraulics calculator), you have slightly under 8HP at the PTO. The PT's hydraulics may be a bit more efficient, but I doubt you have much more than 10HP at the PTO. That is certainly a limitation...

If you think they won't move slush, watch this YouTube video of the same Simplicity single-stage blower that I have:
YouTube - Simplicity Slush Blower

And here's a different movie of a Simplicity single-stage blowing dry snow...
YouTube - 33 Year Old Simplicity Getting the Job Done

Here's another:
YouTube - Snowblowing with a 6216 Simplicity
 
Last edited:

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

Toro Zmaster 60in Professional Zero Turn Mower (A42744)
Toro Zmaster 60in...
2018 KENWORTH T680 TANDEM AXLE SLEEPER (A37763)
2018 KENWORTH T680...
Pepsi Drink Machine (A40784)
Pepsi Drink...
2005 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Ext. Cab Pickup Truck (A42744)
2005 Dodge Ram...
2018 Genie GTH-636 6,000LB 4x4 Rough Terrain Telehandler (A42742)
2018 Genie GTH-636...
MISC PALLET (A45333)
MISC PALLET (A45333)
 
Top