Smoking TC40DA on start up

[Inspector507]

OK........just for giggles, I did NOT use the glow plugs today. Took 12-15 seconds of cranking and loads of black smoke.
Ran rough for 5 seconds, then cleared up.
If I use the glow plugs, it starts a lot better, quicker and less smoke.

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue"> Took 12-15 seconds of cranking and loads of black smoke.
</font>

Inspector I may suggest that you don't start this way on a permanent basis. The starter is sure to suffer as a result of all the extra effort. I guess I should count my blessings with instant ignition on the 40D without the use of the glow plugs.

 

[JerryG]

briggs_man,
Do you know what one of the ways that the auto industry used during the 1970's and into the 1980's was to combat pollution?

 

[Inspector507]

PineRidge,
I should have added........I have no intention of making this a regular practice. I have always used them, just did it yesterday for comparison.

 

[briggs_man]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( briggs_man,
Do you know what one of the ways that the auto industry used during the 1970's and into the 1980's was to combat pollution?

)</font> Not really compared to diesel since majority of automobiles are gasoline that requires a spark to set off the fire in the hole.. Diesels rely on their self heat of compression to run , so when ya start messing with injector timing ya just end up with a diesel that runs like crap. engines gas and Diesel all ran better b4 the epa started their scare tatics and crap . One thing that burns my hindend worse than anything was the big lie about diesel fuel and the sulpher , Right here in WV You can buy off road diesel that is red of course Same friggin fuel that always was diesel fuel b4 they started the low sulpher BS, Guess what School Busses DOH Trucks, Any state owned City owned County owned diesel powerd vechile is alowed to run off road fuel HIGH supher fuel at that . The whole thing in a nut shell was years back it was all high sulper fuel same color they just had no way of knowing that the road tax was paid or not . Besides im begining to belive since the EPA has started all this Low sulpher this . Polution controls on everything . Last few years ever seen how crazy the weather has gotten . I mean 99 twisters in one day was unheard of years ago . Now its getting to commen.. Global warming bahhhhhhh humbug their is not has not been no global warming If these idiots would go back 100 years and look at what the temps was thene their sthe same as now < its called climatic cycles their just not to smart . 100 years ago whene highs was in the upper 90's and humid what was their excuse then their was not no where the autos their are now . anyway i got work to get done i need off my soap box

 

[jwstewar]

Me too. The only time I don't is if I've been using the tractor and it is already pretty warm. Like you said, just so much faster starting, cleaner, and runs a lot smoother faster. Even this past winter when it was zero. Hit the glow plugs one time until the light went out (yes the 24s have a timer on the glow plugs) and off she went. Only a little puff of smoke and off it was running smooth as could be. Just a little noisier than usual. The next night, I plugged the block heater in. Started the same, but was significantly quieter. From now on I'll use the block heater when it gets cold. Of course hopefully I'll have the garage completed before the cold comes again. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( just for giggles, I did NOT use the glow plugs today. Took 12-15 seconds of cranking and loads of black smoke.
)</font>
I just went out and did the same on my 1920..no glow plug time.. started in about 1 second.. barely noticed any smoke and smooth idle... I kissed it... and feel verrrrry lucky.

Soundguy

 

[bharley]

I have a related question about my 1630 starter switch. I bought this tractor 2 weeks ago (1st gen Boomer, 1998, 27HP FWD/HYD--289 hours), it's my first diesel machine. I was confused because the manual described a 4-position starter switch, and I only noticed 3--the starter cranks in the 3rd position. I got confused thinking the glow plugs were on in the 2nd position. Starting it took several tries, a higher throttle, and created lots of black smoke. THEN, I noticed that the glow plug light was not coming on in the 2nd position (DUH!), and realized that there are indeed 4 positions on the switch. However, the starter kicks in in the 3rd position -- so I've discovered that if I leave it in gear, the neutral safety shuts the starter down and I can run the glow plugs for 5-6 seconds. Then back to "N" and she starts right up. (Still puffs a little smoke for a few seconds if cold, but it sounds like this is not so unusual).

So, I'm wondering if anyone has seen this--it could be the switch, or maybe it could be the glow plug relay or the starter safety relay. I can't quite figure from the schematic how these interact, but the other symptom is that the gow plug light--which the manual says shuts off after 4 seconds-- never actually shuts off, as long as I hold it in position 3.

Any advice? I could keep hitting the glow plugs in gear, but I'm not happy about getting used to that, especially when I know that the only thing stopping it from cranking in gear is that neutral safety switch.

Thanks

(PS although it's not a "TC", I'm really happy with it--after 9 years with a 9N, it's amazing to have a machine that does all the work, not just most of it!!!)

 

[Soundguy]

ON my 1920.. the glow plug setting is to turn the key to the left.. glow plug light comes on for a few seconds and then goes out.. then you turn back to off.. then to run then to start. Also a 4 position switch.. I've never checked to see if my glow plugs also come on in the start position.. all I know is thew come on in the 'back' position.. and it is spring loaded just like start.. so if you let it go, it springs to 'off' whereas the start position springs to 'run'.

Soundguy

 

[bharley]

The 1630 has "off", then three more to the right: "run", then a spring-load to "glow", and then apparently the 4th position you have to push the key in further and turn for "starter". The key springs back to "run" from either 3 or 4. Seems like it would work great if the starter didn't run in "glow"!

 

[briggs_man]

Glow OFF ON start Theirs your four postions

Or could be like on some of the 2600s 4600's 3000's ya have Off ON (intake heat ) Start , Intake heater is just before the starter kicks in ,, some may have the glow plugs wired their also

 

[AndyMA]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ON my 1920.. the glow plug setting is to turn the key to the left.. glow plug light comes on for a few seconds and then goes out.. then you turn back to off.. then to run then to start. Also a 4 position switch.. I've never checked to see if my glow plugs also come on in the start position.. all I know is thew come on in the 'back' position.. and it is spring loaded just like start.. so if you let it go, it springs to 'off' whereas the start position springs to 'run'.

Soundguy )</font>

Exactly like 2120 which you expect since they are "brothers"

Andy

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. 1920 and 2120 have lots of similarities.

As ffor the fellow with the `1630.. sounds like your switch is functioning similar to what the poster above mentioned..
off on pre-heat start

Except that the starter spins on your pre-heat cycle...

Could your switch be bad? position 3 and 4 shorted together?

Soundguy

 

[bharley]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( ... Or could be like on some of the 2600s 4600's 3000's ya have Off ON (intake heat ) Start ... )</font>

That's exactly my point--except that the starter kicks in in the heat position. I'm trying to figure out why...it's not supposed to. I guess checking for a short in the switch is a good place to start.

 

[TCowner]

My TC40DA is supposed to be coming home today after spending a couple of days at the dealership trying to fix the excessive smoking problem.

The service manager claims that the first thing they did was put the tractor on the dyno and found it was down abut 5 hp and blew alot of black smoke when it was worked. They drained the fuel and put in new fuel and said the 5 hp loss was gone immediately although it still smoked more than it should. This irritates me because I buy my fuel at the local Co-op in SE Minnesota and they supposedly sell their off road premium diesel fuel in large quantities so I assumed I was getting fresh fuel. I will find a new source for fuel from now on.

They found the fuel injection pump timing to be off by about 4 degrees. They claim they have it set properly now and noticed almost no smoke at start up.

So, it comes home today and we will see if it fixed. No charge for pick up and delivery and of course the repair work is under warranty. I don't know whether I will get charged for the diesel fuel they put in but I won't complain if they do.

I need to be careful. This is my second Class III Newholland tractor and up till now have been very happy with the tractors. I owned John Deere compacts back to 1986 and I really like the new 4000 Twenty series tractor. As long as my New Holland serves me well I plan to stay with them. But should I start to have problems I worry that I could stray.

I plan on long relationship with New Holland. The smoking problem and the incorrect pump timing I suspect is just small glitch and the smile on my face while using the tractor will return.

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> They drained the fuel and put in new fuel and said the 5 hp loss was gone immediately although it still smoked more than it should. This irritates me because I buy my fuel at the local Co-op in SE Minnesota and they supposedly sell their off road premium diesel fuel in large quantities so I assumed I was getting fresh fuel. </font>
Might want to ask the dealer if they put in off road or on road diesel. It could be a situation where the off road you buy at the coop is high sulfur and the fuel they put in is not.

 

[jinman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The smoking problem and the incorrect pump timing I suspect is just small glitch and the smile on my face while using the tractor will return. )</font>

I'm really glad your dealer spent some time figuring out the problem. I sure hope your tractor continues to run properly. Maybe in the new model production rush there was a glitch in quality control. There's no excuse for that, but it does happen. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Your experience and the problem resolution may be really valid info for everyone with similar problems. I hope you will keep us posted on the final prognosis.