buppy69
Platinum Member
What causes a tractor to blow light grey smoke like a chimney at idle, but at higher rpm's no smoke at all?
Eugene
Eugene
Smoke
- Thread starter buppy69
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roger_scotty
Gold Member
Most of the time I see it it is just condensation that has pooled in the exhaust. That happens a lot with upright exhaust stacks. Or maybe it isn't burning all of its fuel at idle. If an injector skips a beat you will sometimes get an puff of unburned fuel droplets - more of a white color instead of gray. That is called "diesel fog" and has smells powerfully of diesel fuel.
Those a just a couple of ideas, and may not apply. When they throw out some diesel fog they also tend to miss at higher rpm. Got any other symptoms??
Those a just a couple of ideas, and may not apply. When they throw out some diesel fog they also tend to miss at higher rpm. Got any other symptoms??
OP
buppy69
Platinum Member
It seems to skip a little at idle and smooth out at higher rpm's.
Eugene
Eugene
OP
buppy69
Platinum Member
Roger'
Your comment about condensation got me thinking. I remember from back in my automotive days, when a head gasket blew and antifreeze was getting into the combustion chamber, it would cause the same kind of smoke I'm getting here. I just thought with all the talk about keeping diesel fuel so clean that a diesel wouldn't run if water was in the fuel. I think I'll check the head gasket.
Eugene
Your comment about condensation got me thinking. I remember from back in my automotive days, when a head gasket blew and antifreeze was getting into the combustion chamber, it would cause the same kind of smoke I'm getting here. I just thought with all the talk about keeping diesel fuel so clean that a diesel wouldn't run if water was in the fuel. I think I'll check the head gasket.
Eugene
Soundguy
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Speaking of water in the fuel, anyone know if any of the big diesel engine manufacturers are using water injectors? (delay)
Soundguy
Soundguy
gbirky
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Soundguy,
I work for Mack Trucks in the engine engineering area. Current technology doesn't include water injection, although research has been done in that area. Water injection reduces emissions and increases power, but is problematic from an injection control point of view. This is a technology which may find a use in the near future as emissions regulations become more strict.
Incidentally, there are many who race and pull with large diesel trucks. These often use anything that will increase power, such as an ice cooled intercooler, or water injection after the turbo on the fresh air side. Multiple turbochargers are also frequently used. I've seen as many as 4 turbos on a V8. Basically, anything you can do to increase total mass in the cylinder will result in more power. Cooler air, at higher pressures, and water spray in the intake all accomplish this. Of course, the ability to inject increadible amounts of fuel also helps.
Mack used to make a 16 liter V8 which is a very popular engine in racing and pulling. This engine is capable of something like 3000 hp (for very short durations). I'm not sure, but I think there was a marine version of this engine which made just under 1000 hp.
Greg
I work for Mack Trucks in the engine engineering area. Current technology doesn't include water injection, although research has been done in that area. Water injection reduces emissions and increases power, but is problematic from an injection control point of view. This is a technology which may find a use in the near future as emissions regulations become more strict.
Incidentally, there are many who race and pull with large diesel trucks. These often use anything that will increase power, such as an ice cooled intercooler, or water injection after the turbo on the fresh air side. Multiple turbochargers are also frequently used. I've seen as many as 4 turbos on a V8. Basically, anything you can do to increase total mass in the cylinder will result in more power. Cooler air, at higher pressures, and water spray in the intake all accomplish this. Of course, the ability to inject increadible amounts of fuel also helps.
Mack used to make a 16 liter V8 which is a very popular engine in racing and pulling. This engine is capable of something like 3000 hp (for very short durations). I'm not sure, but I think there was a marine version of this engine which made just under 1000 hp.
Greg
alvanko
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Let me get this straight . Water in the combustion chamber is OK but water through the injector nozzle is bad . I remember when I was younger , I was told that spraying water in/through a carburator(gas engine) , would actually clean carbon from the cylinder because of the boiling affect . Is this true ? Would the same thing happen in a deisel engine ?? I have heard of water injectors on gasoline engines but not on deisels . I work in a Kenworth dealership and never heard of this .
By the way , I built and painted a Peterbilt cab and hood for a fella who pulls a sled at tractor pulls . Very impressive power !!!!!! Twin turbos and lots of black smoke !!!!
By the way , I built and painted a Peterbilt cab and hood for a fella who pulls a sled at tractor pulls . Very impressive power !!!!!! Twin turbos and lots of black smoke !!!!
Water good......water in Diesel bad. Water in the injector can turn to steam and blow the tip out.
Yes, running water into a gas engine can take the carbon out. In fact, GM experimented with a water/alcohol injection system to cool the incoming air flow to increase performance on turbo engine. It cooled the mixture and kept the pistons valves etc very clean.
The way we non GM engineers use to do that was take a vacuum line that was pulling vacuum from the carburetor base, raise the RPM up to a fast idle and stick the end of the vacuum line into a cup of water. The engine would start running rough and chunks of black soot would go rushing out of the exhaust.
Never heard of anyone doing that to a diesel and don't think I would try. A compression fired engine would probably turn the water into steam before TDC and might break a piston. But I think I remember some Detroit Diesels using an alcohol injection system back in the 70's. And I am pretty sure that at about the same time, P&H cranes had a Cummins V8 with an alcohol injection system in the carrier and a Detroit 3-71 up in the crane with the same system.
Yes, running water into a gas engine can take the carbon out. In fact, GM experimented with a water/alcohol injection system to cool the incoming air flow to increase performance on turbo engine. It cooled the mixture and kept the pistons valves etc very clean.
The way we non GM engineers use to do that was take a vacuum line that was pulling vacuum from the carburetor base, raise the RPM up to a fast idle and stick the end of the vacuum line into a cup of water. The engine would start running rough and chunks of black soot would go rushing out of the exhaust.
Never heard of anyone doing that to a diesel and don't think I would try. A compression fired engine would probably turn the water into steam before TDC and might break a piston. But I think I remember some Detroit Diesels using an alcohol injection system back in the 70's. And I am pretty sure that at about the same time, P&H cranes had a Cummins V8 with an alcohol injection system in the carrier and a Detroit 3-71 up in the crane with the same system.
OP
buppy69
Platinum Member
I had this tractor in the shop for an unrelated problem and the mechanic told me that it had either cracked or dirty injectors causing the smoke. I took out all of the injectors. No cracks but a lot of crust. I used a wire brush on a bench grinder to clean them just like new on the outside. How do I clean the insides?
Eugene
Eugene
"How do I clean the insides?"
You don't.....you don't have the equipment They have to be tested for flow rate, spray pattern and leakdown. Then they are cleaned in a solvent/ultra sonic bath, backflushed and tested again. A set must have equal flow rate.
Just because you don't see a crack doesn't mean there isn't a crack. If there is a small crack, it will be apparent in the tests.
There should be a diesel repair shop or machine shop near you that can do the work.
You don't.....you don't have the equipment They have to be tested for flow rate, spray pattern and leakdown. Then they are cleaned in a solvent/ultra sonic bath, backflushed and tested again. A set must have equal flow rate.
Just because you don't see a crack doesn't mean there isn't a crack. If there is a small crack, it will be apparent in the tests.
There should be a diesel repair shop or machine shop near you that can do the work.