slip clutch

   / slip clutch #1  

dclymer

New member
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Messages
17
Location
Granite Falls NC
Tractor
N.H. tc21
I was at my NH dealer today , I saw them installing a tiller. The power take off shaft looked like it had a clutch type system on the end of the shaft at the tiller end . Is this something new ? my tiller is just a shaft from tractor to tiller. Informe me.... D. Clymer
 
   / slip clutch #2  
<font color=blue>...my tiller is just a shaft from tractor to tiller...</font color=blue>

More than likely you are using a "Shear Bolt". Most small tillers are used on under 45 PTO hp tractors and will have a Grade 2 bolt. The shear bolt is always located at the implement end. {Check your owners manual to verify this}

If you are constantly shearing "pins or bolts" because of your type of ground conditions... then it would be advisable to "add" a "slip-clutch" to your tiller for convenience...

18-35196-JDMFWDSigJFM.JPG
 
   / slip clutch #3  
John-

Ok, really dumb question - How can you tell the difference between a Grade 0, 1, & 2 bolt?

My current understanding is that a Grade 8 has 6 "dashes" on it , on the outside corners pointed to the middle, Grade 5 same thing but 3 "dashes".

Someone told me that 0, 1, & 2 don't have any markings on them. Is this true? If so, back to my question, how do you tell the difference?
 
   / slip clutch #4  
John, I bought a slip clutch from Tractor Supply that is splined to fit the PTO shaft on the tractor. I planned to use with my 6' rotary mower which has a shear bolt at the implement end of the shaft. Is there any problem with doing this? I don't know if the clutch would slip at a lower torque than would shear the bolt but could not think of a reason why it would cause any kind of unsafe condition. I also thought about using it with my post hole digger but I doubt it would be of any real benfit because of the small size of the shear bolt on the digger drive shaft.
 
   / slip clutch #5  
dti_ani.gif
tcb2.gif


nut.jpg
Grade 2

nut2.jpg
Grade 5

nut4.jpg
Grade 8



<font color=blue>...2 don't have any markings on them. Is this true?...</font color=blue>

Yes, Grade 2 has no "hash marks"...

I've never seen or heard of a 0 or 1 grade? /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

18-35197-JD5205JFMsignaturelogo.JPG
 
   / slip clutch #6  
Ranchman,

I really don't think you can visually determine the difference. They're all classified as low-medium carbon steel (non tempered). The only difference being the tensile strength grading. Most of the low grade fasteners I've gotten lately such as the shear bolts for my plow and ripper have all been marked with the ASTM rating 307A.

Shear pin?

There's also a link in there to the Register of Fastener Insignia. Thru registered headmarks you can identify the manufacturer of the fastener.

DFB
 
   / slip clutch #7  
<font color=blue>...planned to use with my 6' rotary mower which has a shear bolt at the implement end of the shaft. Is there any problem with doing this? ...</font color=blue>

You always mount the slip clutch at the implement gearbox... never at the tractor...

On transmission driven PTO's, you may install an "overrunning clutch assembly" at the tractor side... {however many of the newer tractors have the "overrunning clutch" internally...}

All shear bolt type implements have a "smooth shaft", therefore you'll have to bring back your splined unit and trade for a smooth. In this case, I would still use a "shear bolt", but have the slip clutch adjusted accordingly... {Double insurance}

<font color=blue>I don't know if the clutch would slip at a lower torque than would shear the bolt but could not think of a reason why it would cause any kind of unsafe condition...</font color=blue>

Rule of Thumb -
2 Plate Slip Clutch - rated @ ~~ 57 PTO hp
4 Plate Slip Clutch - rated @ ~~ 92 PTO hp

These figures will vary somewhat depending on the manufacturer of the slip clutch. What this means, on day one when you buy that brand new slip clutch and retrofit your implement... without you doing anything... this is normally what they are adjusted for straight from the factory. So you will normally adjust them accordingly after purchase.

In a couple weeks, I'll start another thread and explain the in's and out's of adjustment...

18-35196-JDMFWDSigJFM.JPG
 
   / slip clutch #8  
John,

Your proposed timing for your tutorial on slip clutch adjsutment is great. I a couple of weeks I will be back from a trip and need to get the rotary cutter into working order. Last Fall I installed a slip clutch and backed the slip clutch bolts off as the instructions suggest for winter...but the instructions are particularly unhelpful on how to actually re-set the tension springs ("loosen or tighten exactly two turns" is not so helpful when the two are separated by four months and several skinned knuckles). There are no guides for the preferred length of the compressed spring and absent better suggestions here, I suspect that some trial and error, along with care to insure equal compression around all eight bolts is what will be called for. While there is always the shear bolt that is still on the implement end of my slip clutch, I'd like the clutch to actually work, not just decorate the PTO shaft.

If I hung around the general store I suppose I could get lots of free advice on this, but I suspect the pool of expertise here on TBN is wider, if not also deeper.

Looking forward to the slip clutch adjustment thread....

Chas
 
   / slip clutch #9  
A slip clutch came with my Caroni tiller and I adjusted it to slip before my tractor stalled or did damage to PTO system. Its amazing how fast a stump or root will stop a tiller. I also put a clutch on my bush hog for the same reasons and adjusted it accordingly. My neighbor had a bush hog on his 35hp massy with a shear pin, it sounded like a gun shot when he sheared a pin which was often(he likes to run over things), he finally put on a clutch and no more broken shear pins which were 1/2" #2.
 
   / slip clutch #10  
GaryK,

I just got a Caroni tiller and it too came with a slip clutch. It looks to me like this thing has been sitting around outside for a while (faded paint,etc.) and I figure the slip clutch is most likely stuck/sticking. I was trying to get the shaft off the tiller and after finally getting the two bolts off, it seems to be frozen on by rust (yet more evidence of sitting outside). The place I got it from neglected to send me a manual, so for the next several days I don't even have that (and I'm not a patient man:) In an ideal world, there would be a table something like "for PTO HP of X, adjust to spring length Y", or maybe "torque to Y ftlbs.". There's probably too many variables for this to be totally reliable, but I have no clue how to even guesstimate the setting for the clutch.

In your post, you said you adjusted the clutch to slip before stalling your tractor. I have a small Kubota BX2200, and am very paranoid about causing any damage. Could you describe how you went about determining the proper setting for the clutch? I've been trying to figure out a "safe" procedure to test it out, but the only things I've come up with involve stupidity on my part to try (like getting the tiller up to full PTO speed, then jamming a 2x4 into the tines to stop them and see if the clutch slips).

Thanks for any input you might have.

Kevin
 
   / slip clutch #11  
Kevin, why not just back off the adjustment about as far as you can, then with the tiller tines set solidly on the ground, engage the PTO (low engine RPM) and make sure the clutch is slipping; or with the adjustment backed off, engage the PTO with the tiller raised, then lower it slowly to the ground. It should slip easily. Shut down and tighten the adjustment (all nuts or bolts equally) just a little bit and do it again, until it no longer slips when tilling.
 
   / slip clutch #12  
Bird,

Thanks for the pointer. Seems a little obvious now that I see it written down, but for the life of me I couldn't come up with anything that made sense. Did as you said, and I think I've got it real close. I may still need to back it off a wee bit, but I was able to till up a little bit of the garden before the rain hit, and saw no indication of problems. I even found a few rocks, but it didn't seem to load the engine at all. Thanks again.

Kevin
 
   / slip clutch #13  
Glad it worked for you, Kevin. Best I can remember, that's about the way my Bush Hog tiller manual said to do it, if you had a slip clutch, which I didn't./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
 
   / slip clutch #14  
You can download an Adobe acrobat file of the tiller manual at the Bush Hog web site if you want to have text of the adjustment process.

Chris
 
   / slip clutch #15  
Kyoders ( Kevin),

How did the Caroni tiller work on your BX2200? Would you buy the same tiller if you had to do it again? Other then the forgotten manual how was the dealer to work with?

Thanks

Tom
 
   / slip clutch #16  
Tom,

Sorry I haven't responded to your private message yet. May as well do it here in case anybody else is interested.

The tiller showed up Thursday afternoon. I didn't have time to play with until Friday. After marking the PTO shaft to cut it down, I tried to get the tiller end off. This proved very difficult, and ended up taking me the next 2 hours of frustration. The shield on that end is very difficult to work around. I ended up taking the A-frame mast off, and the outer section of the boot, and was finally able to get into the small access panel. I then struggled to get the bolts off the input shaft end, only to discover that the clutch was frozen onto the shaft. It was obvious the tiller had been sitting outside a while due to the faded paint, so I guess it's no surprise the shaft was rusted. It was so nice out that day, I decided to work outside rather than in the shop. I finally came back to it Sunday morning. A little WD40 and a small pry bar, and the clutch came off the shaft without much trouble.

I then proceeded to tear down the clutch to check for rust. There was a little, but nothing to worry about. Finished cutting the shaft down, cleaned up as much rust as I could, then put it all back together on the tractor (with liberal amounts of grease everywhere). Total time elapsed over the two days, about 6 1/2 hours, though I was working alone.

Next tried to get the clutch adjusted. I tightened all the clutch bolts down until the springs were completely compressed, then backed them off 3 full turns. This allowed the clutch to slip without much trouble when I lowered it to the ground. I then tried tightening the bolts one full turn, then tried it again. This time, it starting really chewing into the ground. When I hit the rocks (inevetible around here), the clutch did not slip. It began chewing up the rocks, and even broke several of them, when the engine began slowing down. By the time I got the tiller raised up out of the hole, it had nearly stalled the tractor. It's kind of a catch-22, because with the engine so heavily loaded, the hydraulics were pretty slow raising it up. Anyway, I lugged the engine pretty good, but only a few seconds, and it never did stall it. Hopefully no damage, but there's nothing I can do about it now. I loosened the clutch bolts another 1/2 turn, and things seemed to work better this time. For testing, I moved to an area that was a little less difficult, and ended up tilling about a 25 ft swatch. I hit a few rocks, but it just spit them out, and there was no noticeable strain on the engine at all. I have a feeling the clutch is still a little tight, but it was about to start pouring down rain, so I gave up for the day. Before going back out with it, I will back it off another 1/6 or 1/3 turn and try again.

As for my impressions, after only actually using the tiller for about 5 minutes: I think that for the price, I got a pretty good deal. The fit and finish is reasonable. It would have been nice if it hadn't sat outside so long, but that was the dealer. The manufacture date was 10/00, so the machine was sitting somewhere for a year and a half. One annoying thing was that it was shipped in the offset position. I got the 48" so I wouldn't have to offset it. Part of the 6-1/2 hours was moving it back to center.

The offset function is 6-1/2" or nothing. The top-mast moves to a different set of brackets towards the center, and the clevis-style lower lift points unclamp and get moved as well. If you want to be able to offset/center as situations dictate, this is probably not the machine for you. Something I consider a design flaw is that the input shaft on the tiller is only directly aligned when in the offset position. With it centered, it's off almost 6 inches. If you get one, be sure you measure the shaft in the position you will use the tiller. Fortunately, I left mine a little longer, thinking I could always take a little more if necessary. This ended up being just abour right with it centered. Also, with the built-in offset of the drive shaft, you need to make sure you disengage the PTO before you get near full lift on it. It starts to make some bad noises and vibrate a bit over the last 2 or 3 inches of lift, which from some other posts sounds like I'm exceeding the angles for smooth operation.

So much for the down-side. On the positive side, the 25' swatch I did came out absolutely beautiful. I let it till to full depth on the first and only pass, and the result was nicely tilled (all ground up, but not dust). The back flap covering the tines left it very well distributed and smoothed out. As I said before, I did hit a few rocks, one of which was about 8 x 5 x 4 inches. It chewed on it for a few seconds, the engine never seemed to notice, then it ended up leaving it lying on the surface for me. Aside from forgetting to send a manual (or maybe the shipping company "misplacing" it??), my experience with the dealer was pretty good. He answered all of my questions via e-mail, and I only called them to actually place the order. They normally ship FOB, but there is at least one carrier that can do curbside with a hydraulic tailgate, which is what I had them do. For value, I think I did quite well. The tiller was 839.95, tax 54.60, and shipping about 75 (with curbside).

If I had to do it again, I wouldn't feel it was a bad choice to go with this tiller. However, I might want to look around a bit more. Since ordering it, I found reference to a Sicma tiller that sounds in the same price category. If I could have the opportunity to "kick the tires" on the Caroni and others, I might make a different choice, but since dealers are scarce around here (except for big-name stuff, with big-name price tags), that probably wouldn't have been practical anyway. As far as the size goes, I would definitely not go over what I got, the 48" width and 400lbs. The tractor seems steady enough with the tiller fully raised, but intuition says I was getting to it's limit (all I had on the front end was the FEL, empty).

Hope that helps.

Kevin

PS. Whatever tiller you go with, don't forget to check the lubrication of everything before using. Fortunately, there was a sticker near the gearbox reminding me it was shipped dry. I also greased up the PTO shaft where there were zerks. I would not be surprised if other companies shipped them dry, or at least less than full capacity.
 
   / slip clutch #17  
Kevin,

Thanks for the quick turn around on the response and the great detail, it has helped a lot. I found a Kubota dealer in VT. Who sells a Muratori Tiller also made in Italy. I hope we can work something out as it is a few $ over the $840, but if he can set it up so all I have to do it put it on the BX 2200 without all the extra effort you went through it may be worth it. I am also going to call a few Tractor Supply Stores a few hours from here and see what they have. Also have the Sweet Farm Sicma 47" for $850 to think about. I just hope I can get something before the garden needs to be tilled, the boss is starting to drop hints already!

Thanks again.

Tom
 
   / slip clutch #18  
Kyoder, you said your set-up made a bad noise and vibrated when you raised the tiller so you shut off the PTO. Be careful, it sounds like the PTO shaft may still be too long and binds when the tiller is raised. This can potentially snap the PTO off at the tractor( big bucks and trouble getting parts in a grey)
With the tiller fully raised there should still be a fraction of an inch of travel left in the PTO as it telescopes into itself. If not, and it binds, you are applying a binding lateral force to the PTO as you raise the 3pt. hitch. This still happens even if the PTO is not rotating.
 
   / slip clutch #19  
RCH,

Thanks for the advice. I will double check that before I fully raise it again. It's very possible I still need to cut it down a bit more.

Kevin
 
 

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