skid steers?

[kosta]

I have a small ranch and have determined a skid steer would best serve my purposes. I live in rural montana and the closest dealer is new holland I would have to travel for others.
1) is new holland a good skid steer if not why?
2) I need a larger machine 160-190 would appreciate some practical advise.
price reliability are important thank you

 

[Kub0ta]

I used to operate a New Holland LS 170, awesome machine. The only problem i had was, since its so close to the ground mud kept getting stuck underneth the foot pedals and would have to pressure wash the mud out. Otherwise go for it.

 

[tim250f]

In my opinion, Bobcat makes the best skidsteer in the business. I have put countless hours on my father's 753 and can't say enough about the rock solid reliablity of both the machine and its Kubota engine. My advice would be to operate several different brands and make your decision on which one works best for you.

 

[jgh]

20050214

I would 2nd Bobcat just because I have an A300 (and a 430 excavator and many attachments) and love it. What I have heard is that all the major SSL brands are very sturdy and that you probably will best make your choice based on comparison of features and dealer service.

Bobcat has for example one major feature that I could not do without--power bobtach--I can flip the levers on attachments without leaving my cab. The computerized instrument panel with its library of instructions on attachments and so many more features, is another plus.

And the all wheel steer is essential since I use mine in our grass areas.

Consider a tracked machine if you are going to be in mud much of the time. The usual SSL is not a big traction king (think "SKID" steer) and its R4s will fill up with mud really quickly!

Have some fun trying them out, and watch for things like KubOta mentioned, that might be a problem in your particular circumstances. I have a New Holland utility tractor, a Liebherr big loader, Mack dumps, a Kubota BX, and a JD gator, so I am relatively brand neutral.

And there are prior posts on the SSL selection process you can search for.

We guys with the free opinions are as near as your computer
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Jim

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Strongly, strongly suggest you read and search through a few of the threads here and on a few other sites:

lawnsite.com, plowsite,com, bobcatforum.com, and heavyequipmentforums.com all have several skid steer threads. Lawnsite is probably the biggest SSL thread place.

Good luck!

 

[kosta]

Thanks for your input, I actually usually rent a bobcat when I need it have also tried a cat and a case. The new holland is closer thats all. I have no specific complaints about any of the ones I have tried I was hoping to get an idea on reliability, maintence costs etc. It is hard for me to tell with a 4-6 hr job what one would be on a daily basis. Thanks
Do any of these come with tracks that can be put on over the wheels? That would be perfect for me

 

[jgh]

20050215

IMHO, maintenance costs are going to be similar but might vary depending on the dealer. I'm betting the major manufs have made certain that their scheduled costs are not out of line, but if you run into an unscrupulous dealer, all bets are off.

Like Wang said, see those other threads and don't forget that all important local buzz--reputation check--on the dealers you consider.

One thought. You might quiz each dealer on how good they are at remotely supporting you on things like doing your own minor maintenance. My NH dealer once ups'd me a diagnostic instrument to save me having to bring my tractor back in. Using it I found a bad part, they sent it under warranty and I installed it. Not the best way, but it worked out OK. Now I am dealing with a dealer closer to our new farm and things are fine.

My Bobcat dealer loans me a machine when mine is in (and can be slow getting it back to me), but remember that construction equipment carries a higher markup so those dealers are more inclined to help like that. Word on the street is that Ag sales barely make a profit, that most Ag dealers make it on service and parts.

Keep asking and we'll try to help,

Jim /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[kosta]

JIm, thnks for the info, I suspected something along those lines between ag and construction.
Presently Im between the new holland( proximity) and a CAT( my construction buddies swear you cant kill the cats and that they are better than the bobcats- dont know much about the NH'S. ANy opinion the the new hollands, any friends who have heard Ive checked out the sites that wang mentioned stll havent heard any thing bad
Thanks Gus

 

[ric]

I own a skidsteer, finally bought one 3 years ago to work on my property like you I suspect. I am not a dealer and I don't own an business that uses equipment like this. I did own a Kubota tractor with a loader...what a mistake, slow and overated. Sold it to buy my skidsteer. I own another Kubota tractor to mow with...about the only thing its good for...but it is fast and fun to drive and mows great.

Started renting skidsteers in 1988...Bobcat...that's all you could rent (more on that later)...nice unit BUT...if you want something that will flip, bounce, roll over or quit on you right when you need thats the one to buy. These seem to be especially good at bouncing around loaded. They are too light and poorly balanced end to end.

I know more people who have been upside down in one of these. Don't know anybody who has flipped a Case, NH or Deere and the people I know who own them have probably tried. Bobcat also seems to have problems deciding on which engine to use or whether to use a turbo or not.

I have a couple friends who own equipment rental companies and they are switching to Case, because of all the problems with their Bobcats. I understand one reason you see so many Bobcats at rental places is because of the cozy deal Bobcat makes with the rental companies.

In late 2002 I rented a Case, Bobcat and asked two local dealers if they could provide me with an NH and a Deere to evaluate, all on the same weekend. They were all roughly the same size. Side by side its easy to see which one works the best. Veterans Day weekend gave me three days to decide if I could last long enough...these things will wear you out opertaing them for a long time.

At the time NH had just stopped supplying Deere with skidsters to resell. I really liked the NH seemed fast and easy to use. Good lift height. The new Deere ran really well and had lots of power. Really liked the way it looked too. The Bobcat was a turbo unit and I think the heaviest one I had operated up to that point, although it didn't seem light like the others it did seem off balance. Lots of power with good fuel consumption. The Case was a really solid unit, heavy to feel. I had to get used to the hand controls being used to the foot controls on the Bobcat.

I had lots of things to do that weekend, but with 4 skidsteers between me and my wife we got alot done, digging, hauling, lifting, towing, you name it. The rental cost me just over $500 including delivery and pickup of the rental units, but it was worth it since we got all that work done and we learned what we like and why.

To make a long story short the Case was absolutley the best unit of the 4. Prior to renting the Case I had never operatored one for any period of time expect when we test drove one on dealers lot. At the time I had no idea you could even rent Case until I asked around. Never found anybody that rented a Deere or NH, then or since. We bought a used 1994 1845C in early 2003 with a new 62 hp diesel. I got a good deal on new tires, a brush grapple, pallet fork and low profile bucket to go with the standard bucket on the unit. Since then its only had minor problems with nearly every one being mostly an aritifact of it being used. I unexpectedly bought this from a Case dealer. I can do alot of my own maintence, however the dealer also has winter specials on service and parts which has turned out to be very cost effective for me to use.

Hope this helps. The decision on which one to buy is not the tough part, finding the right unit once you have decided is the tough part.

Good luck.

ric

 

[gatractorman]

New Holland has a solid unit, all the skid steer mfgrs. have pro and cons, personally I feel like I'm sitting down in a hole when I operate a NH and I cant see as well as I think I should be able to, the longer wheelbase on the NH definately gives more stability and smoother ride than some of the comprable short wheelbase Bobcat models, I like the vertical lift paths the NH has I'm sure other mfgrs. have a model with this option I know Bobcat does, and BTW if Bobcat hasn't improved the big vertical lift boom machine in the past couple years then it is still a weak link. Anyway if you like the NH and feel comfortable you will get good service from the dealer then the NH would be a good choice.

 

[40Kchicks]

Kosta

I have a CAT 216. It has been an absolute wonderful machine. Personally if I was buying a skid steer now it would be one of the CAT models with the vertical lifts. Cat has the best controls that I have ever used. When I bought mine new in 01 we compared Deere, NH, and Case. The Case is a good solid machine. We didn’t like the deere just because it wasn’t as comfortable and we didn’t like the controls as much as on the CAT. The NH that we used was old and didn’t compare to the CAT or I’m sure a new NH.

We bought grouser tracks at the same time as the skid steer. They turn the skid steer into a go anywhere tank. I live in Oregon where we have lots of mud. The tracks are very important to me. They allow the skid steer to act like a bigger machine because instead of just slipping around the power goes to the ground.

I have built a couple of buckets and a hydraulic auger for it. The tracks and forks were purchased with the skid steer. I also just happened to find a backhoe for it. It’s really small but way better than a shovel. The best part is I got it for $325.

By the way you can get the hydraulic attachment or what Bobcat calls the Bobtach on the CAT now. I think they said it cost about $800 extra.

One thing I will tell you about dealing for the skid steer is that they will really work with you. CAT gave me 5 years no interest and let me set the payment intervals. I pay twice a year.

Good luck
Eric

 

[RobertN]

I will sound like a broken record to some who frequent here, but...

Check out the tracked units. I have used the ASVi and CAT tracked loaders, in addition to various sized Bobcat skid steers. I swear by the tracked units now. The CAT-247 was nothing short of awesome. I used it in wet conditions where I would have certianly had a similar sized skid steer stuck. It was smoother to drive, and left neglible marks on wet turf.

I have only used the ASVi and CAT tracked units(ASVi RC30 and CAT-247). ASVi makes the track drives for both thier machines, and for CAT. I would guess that the other brand of tracked loaders would be similar in operation.
ASV tracked machines


more track stuff

CAT

One other thing, it is interesting from a farm background to look at the Bobcat "history" on thier web site. Seems this whole skid steer thing got started by a Farmer in North Dakota that needed to manuever inside his barns /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Kub0ta]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( New Holland has a solid unit, all the skid steer mfgrs. have pro and cons, personally I feel like I'm sitting down in a hole when I operate a NH and I cant see as well as I think I should be able to, the longer wheelbase on the NH definately gives more stability and smoother ride than some of the comprable short wheelbase Bobcat models, I like the vertical lift paths the NH has I'm sure other mfgrs. have a model with this option I know Bobcat does, and BTW if Bobcat hasn't improved the big vertical lift boom machine in the past couple years then it is still a weak link. Anyway if you like the NH and feel comfortable you will get good service from the dealer then the NH would be a good choice. )</font>

rofl @ the sitting in a hole part so true

 

[kosta]

Thanks Eric and everyone elase this is an awesome site. Eric, am understanding that you can put tracks over the wheels on a CAT. If so do they work well, fall off etc? I am like you in that I would like the option when necessary. I know NH has this. Do bobcat or NH attachments fit on the CATS
Thanks again
Gus

 

[40Kchicks]

My Grouser tracks work great. I wouldn’t own a skid steer without them unless I lived in a really dry place. They can be a little loud when running them in the summer time. I put mine on in the fall and they stay on until early summer. The tracks never fall off. The only problem I have had with them is you have to keep the tires fully inflated or they can break the bead on the tire. This has only happened when I had a slow leak in the tire and the tire pressure got down to about 20lbs. I’m thinking about adding Slime to my tires because if they do get a leak in the winter with the tracks on it’s a messy job to remove the tracks, pull the tire, and put the tracks back on.

Robert noted how nice the tracked machines are. He is right but a dealership once told me that the rubber tracks add about 7K to the price. Steel tracks are about 2K new. The steel tracks get better traction in mud but the rubber ones don’t do as much damage to the ground. Both steel and rubber tracks make the skid steer drive better, meaning less bucking and more stability.

To answer your other question skid steers use a universal quick attachment plate. The new skid steers can swap attachments easily. The average size machines all use the same quick attach and many tractor manufactures are using this standard also. It’s really easy to find attachments for these machines but they are expensive. They are also usually built much heavier than the comparable 3pt attachment. I always keep an eye out for attachments that are cheap. I’ll got some pretty good deals the last couple of years and built some of my own. If you haven’t looked on ebay yet just type skid steer in the search window and you will see lots of new and used attachments. I have never bought any attachments online yet, just hydraulic flat face quick connects, but it will give you a good idea out things available. Bobcat also has a good website that shows lots of attachments.

 

[jgh]

20050217

A lot of the prior posts make my point--you will do best if you choose the one you like the best, the one that suits you. And check out the dealer.

One caution about compatibility--I had an older (circa 1989) Bobcat 743 for a while to learn my way around these things. Yes, that baby bucked like a bronco, much less stable than my A300. But one thing I found was that its SS attaching plate was a little smaller, causing some attachments with tight hole patterns not to fit. Just something to keep in mind, since it might apply to older attachments as well.

Newer Bobcats give you a choice between hand and foot controls. My A300 has hand only which suits me. You also can get machines with vertical lift and without, differing by model. Again, my 300 has a vertical lift path, deemed best for loading trucks, for one thing. I believe it also adds some weight.

I have a SSL plate on the loader on my NH TN90F (vineyard/orchard, narrow) tractor, replacing the proprietary Alo/Quicke system. The SSL (Kasco brand /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif) mechanism is cheap but works fairly well if you don't mind occasionally taking a hammer or 2x4 to the levers. Because of Supersteer and the fact that many SSL attachments are designed to be used close to the operator as they are on SSLs, I find using most anything beyond a bucket (and Supersteer makes even that hard--distance from operator /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif) very challenging.

As one poster's complaint implied, farm tractors are really best at PULLING things, not working off the front end. I just LOVE using my SSL as a LOADER /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif!

Not looking quite as forward (no pun intended) to using the trencher attachment while moving in reverse.

I too believe Cat's service is good, but it is also reputedly the most expensive. Hey, none of the construction dealers work cheap. Cat has pioneered things like oil sampling, etc. You do have to consider just how very long their stuff seems to stay out there.

But considering how they are abused, lots of Bobcats seem to have 9 lives, too.

One last thing to keep in mind, safety. Just like tractors, SSLs are powerful mechanical devices, just much more compact, inherently jumpy and for the newcomer, hard to control. Going back n forth between tractors and my SSL is challenging, but then I'm a klutz anyway. I've not overturned my SSL, but have overturned my big blue tractor. Not fun, even with cab and seat belt.

Couple of other things--

1- As asked in a separate thread, I, too, would like to hear if anyone has used some form of regular, albeit heavy duty for sure, tire chains on SSLs. Since mine is AWS, I would have to keep it in SSL mode all the time with metal tracks. Woe is me if I accidently forget and hit the switch to go to AWS mode /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

2- I just bought (with my A300 deal) 10 pairs of flat face connectors for $56 per pair. In case I need more, please tell me if better deals are out there.

Sorry for my verbosity. Happy deciding /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Jim

BTW, Mark Chalkley, one of the moderators on this category, is strangly silent. As much as he dislikes SSLs, cannot imagine he has not chimed in /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Loves his Earthforce (now Bobcat branded) loader-backhoe device /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MChalkley]

Jim (jgh) - I only decided to post to this thread to ask you to keep the length of your messages down a bit. And I don't post much anymore because Muhammad asked me, as a moderator, to specialize in "verbosity control" and it quickly became apparent that I couldn't do that and post anything myself. (For the record, that was purely intended as a HA (humurous aside) and has no basis in fact whatsoever. In other words: /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

I've been "strangely silent", as you put it, because the poster asked what the best skidsteer is, a question I would be uniquely unqualified to discuss. Now, I realize my qualifications, or lack thereof, haven't always had a bearing on my choice to post or not post in the past, but there it is. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

But, don't worry: when I decide to sell my EarthForce to buy a skidsteer, I'll come back to this thread for advice. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[kosta]

Thanks, I do need to lift things, knock down trees, build fence, plow snow- hence push things. I donot have complete level terrain so I need stability. I guess which NH or cat is best at pushing- or other? CAse, deere, are out. I also would not want to run over my kids, horses or chickens so visiblity is important.
I guess what I really need to know is Is a NH reliable enough and practical enough to do the work since I wont use it daily- stay with the Cat. I called my friend who is a forman at a mine in the state and another who works for a large construction outfit they swear by the cats-why? Everything else cant compete down time-BUT
1) they have never used or know about NH
2)Cats are expensive
3) I wont use the machine as much as them is it good enough,NH, at what I need I would save a good bit of money not going with the cat
4) Does any one know if there are any problems with the Nh's
Guys thanks again.
If I have not though of anything let me know
Gus

 

[40Kchicks]

$56 is the best price I have ever found for the quick couplers also and that was from an ebay seller.

Eric

 

[Tigerotor77W]

I wanted to make a few points here before I try to answer the questions. First, Bobcat stability has improved over the years. There is almost no doubt for me that an NH, Gehl 7000/Mustang 2000, or Deere will feel the most stable. There's good reason for this: their boom arms are LOW. While this improves direct-to-the-side visibility, raise the boom a bit and that hole that's been mentioned comes into play. Also, if you want to see the tires, good luck, because they aren't going to be visible (especially the rear ones) for a while.
Second, it IS possible to kill a Cat. The "anti-stall" feature is a setting on the hydraulic pump that limits the oil flow to the motors... you tweak that and you can make the machine stall whenever you want. A few people have already stalled their Cats. It's not completely anti-stall; its purpose is to help operators avoid waiting for the machine get to the point where it's ABOUT to stall.

Now, kosta... to your questions.

I perfer Deere over NH. They've done some good work with their 300 series skids and I think they're simply a better product than the NH. The NH machines look better-proportioned, but looks don't dictate the business... in any case, if you're going to working on unlevel terrain, I'd have to agree that NH and Deere machines are the better balanced machines. I see that you eliminated Case and Deere. If there's a reason for this, like dealer location or friendliness, that's fine, but if you don't like them because of a bad experience, I'll tell you bluntly that they're both great machines. Most other reasons will probably require more thought.

It looks like you're limited down to the Cat and the NH line. Given your situation, I would suggest at compact-track loader. I think you'll find that their stability and their push power is nice. HOWEVER -- this is relative. If your work in plowing involves ice work (like the roads ice up), CTL machines are more prone to slip around (take a look at plowsite.com for more information on plowing). In GENERAL, however, CTLs have more traction, power, and can lift heavier loads. I personally think a CTL would be best for you.

Your questions (finally):

0) I think the Cat 262B (skid) or 277B or 287B (CTL) would be best for you. NH is going to come out this year with a CTL line, but I can almost guarantee you that its undercarriage will NOT be suspended... meaning a harsh ride like the rest of the CTL world outside of Cat and ASV. For NH -- hands down the Ls190.B OR their CTL when it comes out. The Ls190 has been a great machine for NH and is definitely well-built and a lifting-champion. It has power and is built pretty well.

1) NH is predominantely a farming brand (NH skids were first introduced as ag machines, like Bobcat's machines). Miners don't typically use farming equipment even if it is good. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

2) Cats are expensive, but you are paying for some great controls (compared to NH) and updated technology. NH and older Deeres (as in 200 series) were a bit outdated... heck the entire NH "Superboom" concept -- as it looks now -- dates back to 1994 or so, with only two changes between then and now. Even Cat and Deere, with machines out since 1999, have updated their lines completely in that time.

3) Be careful with this one. If you don't pay attention to your machine, regardless of color, it'll fail one day when you expect it to work.

4) NHs used to have loud transmission whine and horrible boom-arm rigidity. They still have those darn wear strips at the side of the cab... no other manufacturer has them. Ever wonder why?

I would think that you should wait to take a look at what models NH comes out with that have tracks. I would guess they'll unveil everything at ConExpo (mid March), so you'd only be waiting a month or so to see whether you like it. I'd give the Ls190.B a bit before you agree definitely to it; it has a new powertrain and you might want to wait to see whether it holds up. If you have other specific questions, let us know.