Skid Steer or Backhoe for digging a pond
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I am currently digging a pond at my place that is a little under a half an acre. It will receive no run off and we have drilled a well to fill it. It will be 12' deep in the middle.
We have done the digging with a 100 hp tracked skid steer, a 70hp tracked skid steer, and a backhoe. We originally were using a chisel plow behind a large farm tractor to break the ground about 8" deep and then scoop out the loose soil, then chisel plow and repeat. We have a full size dump truck and are hauling about 15 yards at a time a half mile or so to another place on our property. Now that it is getting deeper getting the tractor in there isn't as easy and we are just digging with the 100hp skid steer. With a tooth bucket it does surprisingly well. It is not hard at all to get full buckets which are nearly a yard. The backhoe doesn't work as good I don't think. It is easy to dig a hole with the hoe but I can't get the dump truck down in the pond so it means digging and putting the dirt in a pile and then loading it in the truck - moving it twice. The loader on the backhoe works ok and holds a little more than the skid steer but even with 4WD it has traction issues trying to dig into the virgin ground and the skid steer works better. Keep in mind this is a 13,000 lb tracked skid steer. A smaller one likely would not do as good.
Getting rid of the dirt is the hard part. At first we were just digging topsoil and selling it. I was getting $200 a 12 yard truck load and could sell it about as fast as I could dig it. I would just wait for the phone to ring and go dig enough to fill the truck and go deliver it. As we got deeper we got out of the topsoil and into a caliche mix. Not good enough caliche to sell for road material but definitely white looking and not good for people wanting topsoil for yards and such. This "fill dirt" as it is called has almost no value. We could only get $100 per 12 yard load which basically just covers the trucking and there was much less demand for it.
We then decided to just start piling the dirt up in the back corner of the property for a huge shooting backstop. In total counting what we sold and what we have stacked up I bet we have moved close to 200 dump truck loads and the pond may be halfway done.
I have not worked on it in a few weeks I get bored with it and then will go dig for a day or two. Dirt fluffs up when you dig it and you have no idea how much dirt comes out of a hole until you start digging.
A dozer and an excavator would be the right tools especially if you could just push the dirt out and build a dam, berm around the pond. We want the ground flat around ours so everything has to be hauled off. It is a huge undertaking and will probably take me over a year to complete.
We have done the digging with a 100 hp tracked skid steer, a 70hp tracked skid steer, and a backhoe. We originally were using a chisel plow behind a large farm tractor to break the ground about 8" deep and then scoop out the loose soil, then chisel plow and repeat. We have a full size dump truck and are hauling about 15 yards at a time a half mile or so to another place on our property. Now that it is getting deeper getting the tractor in there isn't as easy and we are just digging with the 100hp skid steer. With a tooth bucket it does surprisingly well. It is not hard at all to get full buckets which are nearly a yard. The backhoe doesn't work as good I don't think. It is easy to dig a hole with the hoe but I can't get the dump truck down in the pond so it means digging and putting the dirt in a pile and then loading it in the truck - moving it twice. The loader on the backhoe works ok and holds a little more than the skid steer but even with 4WD it has traction issues trying to dig into the virgin ground and the skid steer works better. Keep in mind this is a 13,000 lb tracked skid steer. A smaller one likely would not do as good.
Getting rid of the dirt is the hard part. At first we were just digging topsoil and selling it. I was getting $200 a 12 yard truck load and could sell it about as fast as I could dig it. I would just wait for the phone to ring and go dig enough to fill the truck and go deliver it. As we got deeper we got out of the topsoil and into a caliche mix. Not good enough caliche to sell for road material but definitely white looking and not good for people wanting topsoil for yards and such. This "fill dirt" as it is called has almost no value. We could only get $100 per 12 yard load which basically just covers the trucking and there was much less demand for it.
We then decided to just start piling the dirt up in the back corner of the property for a huge shooting backstop. In total counting what we sold and what we have stacked up I bet we have moved close to 200 dump truck loads and the pond may be halfway done.
I have not worked on it in a few weeks I get bored with it and then will go dig for a day or two. Dirt fluffs up when you dig it and you have no idea how much dirt comes out of a hole until you start digging.
A dozer and an excavator would be the right tools especially if you could just push the dirt out and build a dam, berm around the pond. We want the ground flat around ours so everything has to be hauled off. It is a huge undertaking and will probably take me over a year to complete.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Very good information. Until you start hauling the dirt, there is no way to really comprehend how much effort it takes to move it.
bindian
Super Member
I always thought a backhoe would be the ideal pond tool. That is..............until I bought one and realized it was not. I dug the pond basins of both of my ponds with the front loader bucket on my Mahindra 6520 4WD. The first smaller pond, I dug to 4 foot depth with the loader then to depth with the backhoe. But I would have to dig and dump it 90 degrees, then drive out and turn around and go it to remove the spoils with the loader. Lots of wasted time and dangerous turn arounds when the bucket was full.
My second pond, I dug down to 7 feet with the loader bucket.
Both ponds, I just used the bucket as a dozer would and pushed the spoils over the dam, then carried it where I piled it. It took forever and to me moving dirt is so boring. But deep in the basin, the front tires kept sinking with a loaded bucket. So I rented a mini track loader, a Bobcat 770. I could then haul out the wet stuff at the bottom. 
I loved the Bobcat, as my foot print sunk deeper than the tracks with a loader bucket full of dirt. But you still had to travel to pile the spoils. I made piles close to the pond and am still moving them to this day to spread them out.
A year later, I rented a Bobcat E42 mini excavator and dug deeper around the island, after I drained the pond. I could dig and swing 180 degrees and dump spoils on the dam, which I had to remove with the Mahindra. I loved the excavator!
Now, I bought a CAT E70 excavator and Ford dumptruck to enlarge the pond, which is a work in progress. I love digging and dumping straight into the dumptruck! But I hate driving the dumptruck. It cuts down on fun digging time. I need a driver!
This has all taught me a mini track loader and excavator work great on small ponds, but a dozer is needed on big ponds. Moving dirt, you need a dumptruck, or prepare yourself for endless hours moving dirt with a tractor loader and all that fuel.
hugs, Brandi
My second pond, I dug down to 7 feet with the loader bucket.
Both ponds, I just used the bucket as a dozer would and pushed the spoils over the dam, then carried it where I piled it. It took forever and to me moving dirt is so boring. But deep in the basin, the front tires kept sinking with a loaded bucket. So I rented a mini track loader, a Bobcat 770. I could then haul out the wet stuff at the bottom. I loved the Bobcat, as my foot print sunk deeper than the tracks with a loader bucket full of dirt. But you still had to travel to pile the spoils. I made piles close to the pond and am still moving them to this day to spread them out.A year later, I rented a Bobcat E42 mini excavator and dug deeper around the island, after I drained the pond. I could dig and swing 180 degrees and dump spoils on the dam, which I had to remove with the Mahindra. I loved the excavator!
Now, I bought a CAT E70 excavator and Ford dumptruck to enlarge the pond, which is a work in progress. I love digging and dumping straight into the dumptruck! But I hate driving the dumptruck. It cuts down on fun digging time. I need a driver!
This has all taught me a mini track loader and excavator work great on small ponds, but a dozer is needed on big ponds. Moving dirt, you need a dumptruck, or prepare yourself for endless hours moving dirt with a tractor loader and all that fuel.
hugs, Brandi
compact
Silver Member
Dozer is best because it compacts the dam as it is built up in layers. Pretty hard to beat a dozer for moving dirt a few hundred feet. Plus they work very well on inclines and are very good at shaping.
PatrickS2222
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2016
- Messages
- 494
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
- Tractor
- MF35, MF135, MF203 with loader.
I would agree generally with that. One thing to consider though, is that a larger machine will certainly work much more efficiently, but requires more space to do it - it's difficult and somewhat cumbersome to dig a smaller dam with a large dozer, also the wall has to be wide enough to accomodate the weight of the machine if you tramp the wall crossways, or the track width, no pun intended (ie in this case literally the distance between the tracks) if you tramp it lengthways - I believe doing both is best.
Digging a pond with no bern, which requires removal of all the dirt - quite a different project which, as stated by Bindian, requires several machines. Again, the appropriate size of machine is important.
I am currently building a second dam here ..... it is the first time I have attempted this, it's been most of my spare time for 3 months so far, but it's looking reasonably Ok and is nearly finished. You'll see what machinery I have available, however I wish I had a dozer blade for the drott - would've used a lot of the time, also a skid-steer - would've been a bit quicker at some of the work. There aren't any pics less than about 3 weeks old - must remedy that! Take a look if you're interested:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/367756-building-our-new-dam-2.html#post4532977
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
A dozer is good when moving material a short distance, and shaping, but due to the fact that the tracks spread out the weight of the machine, it leaves a very light footprint compared to its weight. A dozer is not a good choice for compacting a dame. My dozer weighs 40,000 pounds. It's a Case 1550 with 170 hp and similar in size and power to a Cat D6 or Deere 850. I can move 3 yards at a time when I've dug down a trench to hold the material in on the sides with an 8 way blade. A U blade will hold a lot more material, but it's not as versatile for shaping.
To compact my soil, I ran my loaded dump truck over my dam, and also used the front tires of my full sized loader backhoe that holds one yard of material. I can go over the same spot dozens of times with the dozer without compressing the dirt very much, but then when I go over it with the backhoe or dump truck, I sink in anywhere from a few inches to half a foot. It's very obvious how much more weight is concentrated on the tires compared to the tracks.
PatrickS2222
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2016
- Messages
- 494
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
- Tractor
- MF35, MF135, MF203 with loader.
Yes, I found the loader with a full bucket will find any soft areas the tracks had "bridged" and didn't compress. I was adding only 12" or so and tramping it, then adding more, simply because my machine is only a bit under 6 tons (plus a bucket of dirt). I wanted it compacter well, so I wouls drive the loader over it a bit as well afterwards.
bindian
Super Member
Eddie,
I learned using a full loader bucket and only front tires for tamping down the dam from you. Those front tires really sink down under the weight. Thanks!
hugs, Brandi
I learned using a full loader bucket and only front tires for tamping down the dam from you. Those front tires really sink down under the weight. Thanks!
hugs, Brandi