Single Element Filter on DK40SEH

[gunmonkeyintl]

I've been (finally) compiling a maintenance log for my '13 DK40SE HST, so I don't have to spend hours researching cross-references and such whenever I go to service it.

In putting together the info about the air filter, everything I read about the DK series seems to mention it having a two-element air filter, "inner/outer". Mine has a single element, labeled Donaldson P822768. Neither my owners, parts, or shop manual mention a second air filter.

I see other owners list their outer filter as the P822768, and their inner as the P822769. I've seen a picture of the P822768 online, and it looks like it would fit inside the P822768.

Should I have a two-stage filter? If so, does the P822769 just fit inside the P822768?

 

[RandyT]

My 05 DK45S doesn't use the inner safety filter either. Even though there is one available from the air cleaner manufacturer I am not sure I could install the inner filter, and then slide the outer filter over it, Just not enough room between the air cleaner housing and the radiator.

 

[gunmonkeyintl]

Thanks for the response. I had a feeling that was the way some of them were made, and mine wasn't unusual.

I have a feeling I'd be able to get the B822768 and B827769 to work together, by installing the smaller one inside the larger one, then installing them to the air box as one. I'm tempted to just order a '69 and see how it goes.

I guess my bigger question is, if I do install the non-original inner filter, will it likely mess up my air-fuel ratio, or give my engine any troubles from more restricted intake?

Also, the images I see of the replacement B822768s with Kioti packaging show a plastic cup with find over the end of the filter. Mine does not have this, and I'm wondering if I should buy a replacement direct from Kioti to get the cup.

 

[VictorW]

A diesel engine doesn't have an air-fuel ratio like a gas engine. A diesel engine is always taking in air. No throttle butterfly valve present. Adjusting the throttle adjusts how much diesel fuel the injector allows in for combustion. More fuel is more power. You could certainly restrict air flow with to much filtration though at higher throttle settings. Not sure if the extra filter would do this or not. If more diesel fuel was injected than the engine can take in air to combust all the diesel, then that's when you would see black smoke from the unburnt fuel.

 

[xcgreene]

Thanks for the response. I had a feeling that was the way some of them were made, and mine wasn't unusual.

I have a feeling I'd be able to get the B822768 and B827769 to work together, by installing the smaller one inside the larger one, then installing them to the air box as one. I'm tempted to just order a '69 and see how it goes.

I guess my bigger question is, if I do install the non-original inner filter, will it likely mess up my air-fuel ratio, or give my engine any troubles from more restricted intake?

Also, the images I see of the replacement B822768s with Kioti packaging show a plastic cup with find over the end of the filter. Mine does not have this, and I'm wondering if I should buy a replacement direct from Kioti to get the cup.

My 2014 DK45SE HST did not come with the inner filter either. But as of two years ago I started using the "Wix" brand 46489 Outer (same as kioti E7230-11081 or Donaldson P822768 outer) and the inner Wix 46490 (same as kioti E6300-11091 or Donaldson P822769 inner). These inner filters do indeed just slip right into the outer filters. It will not harm your engine in the same fashion as a slightly used, but still good for many hours, filter would not. I think it is a benefit to use the inner, especially if you are working in very dusty conditions.

I am not certain about the plastic cup though. Is it part of the clamp down lid of the filter housing? if you have the time, could you post a picture?

 

[gunmonkeyintl]

A diesel engine doesn't have an air-fuel ratio like a gas engine. A diesel engine is always taking in air. No throttle butterfly valve present. Adjusting the throttle adjusts how much diesel fuel the injector allows in for combustion. More fuel is more power. You could certainly restrict air flow with to much filtration though. If more diesel fuel was injected than the engine can take in air to combust all the diesel, then that's when you would see black smoke from the unburnt fuel.

Hmmm...
This is my first/only diesel engine, and I did not know that. So, unless I see smoke, which should only happen at high throttle, I'm still getting enough air? If I'm injecting the same amount of fuel, and not seeing fuel lost to smoke, is it safe to assume I'm still making as much power as I would be with less restrictive airflow?

Sorry if these seem like dumb questions. I'm pretty comfortable around a gas engine, but I guess I don't know what I don't know about a diesel engine.

 

[xcgreene]

No stupid questions at all. Too much air can be seen as white smoke, to little is black smoke. Brown or clear is where we want to be. VictorW provided a great description. When you look at the intake tubing you will see there is nothing but pipework to the intake valves. The same is for any diesel large or small. Add more fuel for more power until the engine has reached the edge of its volumetric efficiency, at which point the air flow becomes turbulent and cannot draw in enough air.

When you see the inner filter you'll realize how little its restricting, its thinner than the outer filter.

 

[gunmonkeyintl]

My 2014 DK45SE HST did not come with the inner filter either. But as of two years ago I started using the "Wix" brand 46489 Outer (same as kioti E7230-11081 or Donaldson P822768 outer) and the inner Wix 46490 (same as kioti E6300-11091 or Donaldson P822769 inner). These inner filters do indeed just slip right into the outer filters. It will not harm your engine in the same fashion as a slightly used, but still good for many hours, filter would not. I think it is a benefit to use the inner, especially if you are working in very dusty conditions.

I am not certain about the plastic cup though. Is it part of the clamp down lid of the filter housing? if you have the time, could you post a picture?

That's perfect. That's exactly what I needed to know. I had a feeling that would be the case, but my only other way of finding out would be to order on and see how they fit. Does the open end of the inner go toward the intake, like on the outer, or is it backwards? I suppose it will make sense when I see them together.

Anyway, here's the picture of the finned cup I was talking about. It came up when I was searching for pictures of the DK air filters, to see what the inner looked like. This particular image is from a cheap, cobbled together kit on eBay, so it's probably not OEM, but it shows up on a lot of images, so it appears to be pretty common.

 

[xcgreene]

That's perfect. That's exactly what I needed to know. I had a feeling that would be the case, but my only other way of finding out would be to order on and see how they fit. Does the open end of the inner go toward the intake, like on the outer, or is it backwards? I suppose it will make sense when I see them together.

Anyway, here's the picture of the finned cup I was talking about. It came up when I was searching for pictures of the DK air filters, to see what the inner looked like. This particular image is from a cheap, cobbled together kit on eBay, so it's probably not OEM, but it shows up on a lot of images, so it appears to be pretty common.
View attachment 518443

Ahhhh, I see what you're asking now. That finned cup is actually made on to many filters. For instance, my John Deere 2510 requires an intake filter that looks exactly like that. Many other tractors use the same or similar. However, this is not part of the filter required for our DKse tractors.

As far as the installation of the inner an outer filter, you are right when you say "it will make sense when I see them together" Both the inner and outer open ends face towards the intake. You can pop the inner filter on first (as if it were the only filter) then the outer filter goes on right over it. The baseplate of the filterhousing is shaped to accommodate this.

 

[VictorW]

Hmmm...
This is my first/only diesel engine, and I did not know that. So, unless I see smoke, which should only happen at high throttle, I'm still getting enough air? If I'm injecting the same amount of fuel, and not seeing fuel lost to smoke, is it safe to assume I'm still making as much power as I would be with less restrictive airflow?

Sorry if these seem like dumb questions. I'm pretty comfortable around a gas engine, but I guess I don't know what I don't know about a diesel engine.

As said, there are no dumb questions and xcgreene finished up my explanation of a diesel perfectly. I started learning about diesels 12 years ago and still learning. Even at high throttle, if the injection pump and injectors are working properly, you should see little to no smoke unless the engine has a very heavy load put on it and is bogging down. Your assumption is also correct. The members here are a great wealth of knowledge and always willing to share. Just ask. Enjoy the tractor and be safe.