Sicklebar mower

/ Sicklebar mower #1  

patrickg

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2001
Messages
1,388
Location
South Central Oklahoma
Tractor
Kubota Grand L4610HSTC
Well It seems, if not Christmas, at least my sickle bar mower finally arrived. It mfg tag is clear on the model number. It says, 505. So apparently there is a Ford 505 mower. It has no Pitman arm. I hooked it up in the hay barn for a test. It sure runs smooth and quiet--- B U T--- there is a cable with a tension adjustment that looks to control the angle of the dangle on the blade. It is runs around a swivel block to xxx. There is my problem. One end of the cable is secured and the other has an eye splice with a thimble around a big eye bolt that isn't bolted to anything.

So if any of you guys know where the other end is supposed to go, I'd sure appreciate hearing about it. It looks as if sometime in the future I could add a hydraulic cylinder to be powered by my rear remote to adjust the sicklebar angle up and down but wold just like to be able to do it the original way, whatever that is.

Patrick
 
/ Sicklebar mower #2  
I'm not sure. Are you sure it's factory and not something the last owner cobbled together? There's a guy on eBay who bought all of an ex-dealer's manuals. Do a search and see if you can find an operators and a parts manual for your sickle bar. That will tell you for sure as well as help in the future.

I'd look for a hole/holes on the bar that the eyebolt would fit.
 
/ Sicklebar mower
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Darren, Your skepticism is appreciated and welcomed. It is good to not be too easily convinced of something you have reason to doubt. Here is the first hand evidence I have. There is a very authentic looking metal manufacturer's tag/label riveted onto a substantial piece of the mower. It clearly shows wear and doesn't look like it is something new added on lately. Of course it could be faked but to what end? If you were going to put a fake tag on something to try to pass it off as something it wasn't, wouldn't you give it the model number of a popular well known easily recognized implement, especially if you were offering it through eBay (where it was headed if I didn't take it)? The tag clearly shows Ford 505. I looked carefully to see if it could have been 1505 or something else but partially obsured by wear/damage/whatever. Looks like it has always said Ford 505. Until or unless I find good info to the contrary, like a knowledgeable Ford/New Holland expert/dealer/mechanic/collector/whatever I will consider it a Ford 505 and try to find instructon and repair/parts manuals for it.

All the parts fit well together and it works fine (except for my ignorance regarding the cable anchoring). There are a few small parts that have obviously been replaced with new ones fairly recently (operating hours wise).

There aren't a lot of choices of where to anchor the eye bolt at the end of the cable. I grabbed the eye bolt and moved it around in a 3D arc to see where it could reach, limiting the swing to places that didn't misuse the swivel pulley thing the cable goes through. I allowed for where it would reach if it was under tension as well. Not only are there no holes of the size of the bolt, there aren't any holes as much as 1/2 the bolts diameter. This caused me to think perhaps the thing was bolted to some tractor part like the 3PH or draw bar. I don't like that idea but I had to consider it as a possibility. I'm sure the folks who used this were not all rocket scientists or savants. We would probably slap our foreheads and say well du-uh if we saw the way it was used. I'd be happy to have some good ole boy embarrass me by showing me how simple it is to hook up. This sure as heck is no ego thing for me, I just want to mow with it and would pay someone to come by and show me. I could probably hook it some way to get it to work but would rather know how it was supposed to be.

Warning, off topic digression follows for illustrative purposes:

Once while trying to replace brushes in an alternator I tried to tie the brushes back with string, expecting I could pull the string out just before the case halves went tightly together. It didn't work. I tried electrical tape as it was thinner than my string. It failed. I shoved the brushes all the way back in their holders and wedged them there with toothpicks, dripped a few drops of water between the brushes and holder and put the assembly in the freezer. After the water froze, I removed the toothpicks and quite easily assembled the case halves. When the ice thawed, the brushes popped into place and everything worked fine. I felt relieved at having got the job done but called a buddy to find out how "regular" (read, SANE) folks do it. He says, "ya hold em back with straightened out paper clips or equivalent!" I ask where to put the paper clips. He says in the little holes. I say, what little holes? He says wipe off the dirt and grease. I say w-e-l-l.... DU-UH!!!

I would like to mow with this mower BUT I would like to rig it correctly. Not to avoid showing my ignorance (too late to hide that) but I don't want to damage it out of ignorance or make some overly complicated arrangement (see story above) when there is likely a very simple solution.

If I can't crack the code soon, either I'll rig some Rube Goldberg solution or it will snow and I will have a few months to work it out.

Patrick
 
/ Sicklebar mower #4  
Patrick,......Patrick,....Darren is obviously referring to the cable arrangement, not the whole mower.
 
/ Sicklebar mower
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Norm, Thanks for your insight. Pretty funny, huh? Like a Leslie Nielsen commedy (Police squad or Airplane). Oh well. I claim to know very little about these things, never having touched one befor and not seeing one for decades and then from afar. I went off in this direction because of an earlier post that questioned the existance of a model 505, unless I screwed that up too.

Oh, yea verily, it is entirely possible that the cable lift assy whatever it is properly called is not entirely stock and if that was the meaning I am in total agreement. There has to be some way to adjust the angle of the dangle and by my examination (at least my eyes still work, for a while yet) this cable arrangement is it. If there used to be some other arrangement, I can't tell by looking. Whatever it was it needed to be quite robust as the sickle bar is long and heavy and the purchase available to take the load is small. The sickle bar has quite a mechanical advantage over the short lever arms you have to pull on/hold to control the sickle bar. Too much "throw" is required to raise/lower the bar to have had just a turnbuckle, not enough adjustment. The cable and associated hardware is pretty robust. Cable was probably (I didn't measure it) 1/2 inch to 9/16, pretty stout and the swivel pulley was about 4 inch in Diameter.

We had thunder storms threatening so I didn't play with it today. I think they have mostly fizzled out with just a light sprinkle, darn.

The way I recall it, the atachment of the end of the cable that is currently attached doesn't look entirely stock but I can't tell at a glance what it would have been originally. I have tried eBay and some other searches but no joy for the manuals so far. I'll be trying New Holland dealers tomorrow. I'm confident I can make it mow, but I sure would like to know more about how it was intended to be set up before I start Rube Goldberging it.

Thanks again for your insight. I guess I was standing too close to the tree and couldn't see the forest.

Patrick
 
/ Sicklebar mower #6  
If you could post a pic. of your mower, focusing on the cable assembly, maybe someone can figure out how it's supposed to work.
 
/ Sicklebar mower #7  
Patrickg - I'm pretty sure your Ford 505 mower is a newer model than my Ford 515 (even though the model number is lower, manufacturer's do that all the time) and I was able to get a manual at the local New Holland dealer for less than $10. You should be able to get one. They will probably have to order it so it may take a few weeks to get it in.
 
/ Sicklebar mower
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Norm, Good idea, posting a picture or two. I was about to do that later today but... I got an email from the seller telling me where the cable is supposed to be anchored. He says it goes to the drawbar, one of my prime suspects. I didn't want to proceed on just my suspiscion and mess something up.

He says that when you raise the 3PH it raises the sickle because it pulls on the cable. From what I recall about the way it was rigged, it should do that. Hopefully with my hydraulic TnT I should be able to adjust the angle of attack (leading edge pointing up or down a little) as well as help with the raising and lowering of the sickle with the tilt.

Very humbling, with my hi-tech background. There aren't that many moving parts involved but I guess it is better safe than sorry.

I know my tractor manual says to shut the tractor engine off for just about every thing you do that doesn't absolutely require engine power but after getting a look at this thing in operation I don't want to be any where near it when it is spun up. It looks at least as nasty as any midieval fighting or torture device I've seen.

Thanks for standing by Norm. I'll try to get a snapshot of it rigged to share. Who knows, maybe someone else might run into someting like this.

Patrick
 
/ Sicklebar mower
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Danny, I will call the nearest two New Holland dealers (60 & 90 miles away). and see if I can get a manual headied my way. Hope this is legible. The text I am entering is really messed up. Some kind of display adaptor incompatibility I am told. Weird typing but unable to see what you type.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Patrick
 
/ Sicklebar mower #10  
Patrick, glad you got that solved. I now recall reading about a mower that operates that way. Must have been the Ford 505. I would never have thought of hooking it to the drawbar, although, in hindsight, it makes sense it had to be hooked to a stationary point.
 
/ Sicklebar mower
  • Thread Starter
#11  
normde2001, Of course there are a few milestones to pass yet. 1. Hook it up to drawbar and everything works OK., 2. It mows OK, 3. I get a new drive belt on it before the old worn and cracked one breaks. At least New Holland can get them in a day or so. Cheap Too (NOT!), $39.95 + tax I'' order one tomorrow from nearest dealer (25 miles).

I went on the New Holland web site, http://www.newholland.com and ordered the Parts catalog, Operator's manual, and Repair manual. $35.25 including the $5 for shipping. Seems their is still some parts support (popular selling items). Looks like this is a early 80's product.

I may not be out of the woods yet but I think I can see the edge from here.

Patrick
 
/ Sicklebar mower #12  
Hello Patrick--I am going to help you the rest of the way out of the woods. Ford may not have that manual? If not, Get a owners manual for a "International" 1300 model or a "Case-IH" 1300 The 505 Ford is identical. I have one myself and it does a good job. It does have a couple quirks that owners for 20 years have not noticed, the little chrome plug on the bearbox is concealing a very important zerk fitting to the head and the pin that drives the cutter bar from the wobble arm must be watched closley. Cable eyebolt is to fasten to your tractor drawbar hole to carry the blade, when lifting. You may adjust or fine tune on the machine, if needed? Glad you did not get a Ford 515, BUMMER !!
 
/ Sicklebar mower #13  
machinedoc - "Glad you did not get a Ford 515, BUMMER !!"

I'm just a little curious why you say that?
 
/ Sicklebar mower #14  
That Ford 515 machine is notorious about not holding together in the drive head and also was prone to break in several weak points in the framing. $100 would be too much to pay for a good one!
 
/ Sicklebar mower
  • Thread Starter
#15  
machinedoc, I think that the New Holland Intergalactic Headquarters web site, NewHolland.com, will probably send me the parts, owners, and repair manuals since they confirmed the automated order I placed there with a credit card. It is good to know what else the unit was marketed as. Thanks for that. That could come in handy when I need parts. The nearest New Holland dealer 's parts guy told me that New Holland only stocks a few "volume" parts. Slow moving items are no longer available.

Condolences to ALL 515 owners. Sorry about that guys. I would have bought a 515 if I could have found one. I got the 505 purely because of the timing of the availabilty and the user reports on the seller (via eBay).

We got 3 1/4 inches of rain. Took three days. Didn't rain very hard very often but did go fairly steady for over a day. It was enough to give me an excuse to stay in and work on my house plans on the computer instead of fuss with the 505 mower. Tomorrow I meet with a prospective builder in the AM but maybe I can hook up the mower for a test in the PM. If I wait too long their won't be anything to mow.

Looking forward to being able to mow around the ponds without having to back up to the water with a brush hog a few hundred times. That is tiring, boring, and takes too long. I have nine ponds now with the one finished a couple months back. This rain finished it off and it was gently overflowing at lunch time.

Patrick
 
/ Sicklebar mower
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Machinedoc, Thanks so much for the comment about the little silver colored plug. There was a lot of water in there. I put in a bunch of good grease (what should I have used?) there after hitting all the zerks I could find (several). Do you lube anything on the sicklebar itself?

Well it mows big stuff pretty well (including saplings up to an inch or so). The breakaway works good but not as often as I gain experience judging where the end of the bar is in relation to fixed objects. According to my mom, the reason I had trouble with clogging on fine material is that it was too dry. Her dad had one about half that size that he pulled behind his team. (He never owned a combustion engine, had inside plumbing, or electricity.) Maybe I was a little late in the season and some of the stuff was dry and harder to cut that when lush and green. Is there an adjustment for the tightness of the moving cutter blade vs the stationary part?

As you can see my manuals haven't arrived from New Holland's Intergalactic HQ yet.

Any idea about sharpening? Do you need to sharpen the serated blades, fixed or moving? If yes, does it require disassembly? What would be a reasonable cost?

What is the corect way to R&R the drive belt. I took it off the idlers and tried to use a stick to derail it while tugging on the belt with my ither hand. Lots of effort, no progress. If I wait long enough the old worn belt will break and fall off but I still won't know the right way to put on a replacement. On the topic of replacements, New Holland wants $40 for the belt. Is that belt better than if I went to a parts store with the old one in hand and matched it up in size and general appearance? If it is special I'll get it, otherwise I'd think it would be way cheaper at auto/truck parts place. What is your take on that?


Thanks again for your input,

Patrick
 
/ Sicklebar mower #17  
Believe it or not the "adjustment for the tightness of the moving cutter blade vs the stationary part" is with a hammer! The manual for my Ford 515 says to "align the guards by striking the forward end up or down with a hammer". It also says the knife clips can be adjusted by "striking the forward end of the clip up or down". Mine wasn't cutting very good, but after about a half hour of "hammer engineering" it cuts pretty good now!
 
/ Sicklebar mower #18  
Use the parts house belt,if less expensive. May try starting the belt off the big pully by hand and not the stick, sometimes it gets a better bite and rolls right off. I sharpen mine with the sickle in the machine with a 4 inch electric angle grinder (wear safety glasses). Someone may have put the wrong belt on (too short)
 
/ Sicklebar mower
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Machinedoc, The reason I tried to use a stick to help pry the belt off the mower was that I didn't have the strength in my hands to do it, well, manually. I tried the stick to get some leverage. Got close a couple times but no joy. Didn't want to get too carried away and break something on the machine or me. Now that I have the manual, I know what I can loosen or whatever without causing some unforseen problem.

Could you break it down just a bit for me, the application of the angle grinder, that is. I have some 4 1/2 inch angle grinders and metal grinding disks but would appreciate a little detail on how to proceed.

Turns out the cable operated lifting mechanism is stock except for where a swedged cable terminaton broke and was replaced with an eye splice with a thimble. Lots of good info in the manual regarding adjusting spring tensions for proper weight on the sickle arm (inboard and outboard ends.) Lots of info on adjusting it to fit various Ford tractors.

I don't understand why they would want the 3PH adjusted to carry the lower pins at different heights depending on the model of the tractor. I would have thought there would be an optimum height, independent of the model of the tractor... OH WELL just another bit of personal ignorance uncovered. I'm sure they have a good reason, just unknown to this neophyte. I guess I now need to go measure some "antique" Ford tractors to see which one more closely resembles my Kubota's 3PH configuration.

Mowing season is sort of coming to a close and we got another inch of rain over two days. Real gentle, little runoff, much appreciated but sort of makes mowing a topic of conversation rather than an activity.

Thanks for your help and suggestions,

Patrick
 
 

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