Septic Tank Chemistry

[Artisan]

I've built three places in country w/septic systems. I am in the camp that believes you don't use a garbage disposal, instead get a dog or dump grease and scraps in the woods for the coon. You unhook the washer from the system after inspection, and don't put nothing down the crapper that you didn't eat first. I got zero problems.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: < THATS 2 of EM!

 

[Artisan]

The tank itself is not the problem when it comes to failed systems. Usually the problem is a result of not getting your tank pumped out often enough. When this happens the floating scum layer will get pushed by the baffles that are intended and down into the field, coating it with an inpenetrable layer. By having the tank regularly pumped you not only removing the inert scum buildup, you are also allowing the field to "rest" and re-aerate.
Some good points are pointed out in the above posts and here are a few more; a garbage disposal is counted as a full bath and is a major factor when designing the septic system... liquid soaps are generally a little better for your system than bar soaps, bar soaps often use fats as solidfiers... and finally a simple upgrade to some older systems is to add a vent at the far end of the field (the candycanes you often see). This vent in combination with your roof vents will allow a LOT more oxygen to be drawn in for the beneficial bacteria to use in breaking down the organics.
Here is a really good site for learning about modern septic systems; Septic System | Leach Field | Onsite Wastewater Treatment | Presby Environmental

MOST informative! Love it~! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Soundguy]

kind of amusing to read about those that think you need to get your system pumped regularly.

if you need it regularly.. you have a problem.

I'm involved in waste water systems maintenance and design.. both for residential and municipal use. Primary effluent treatment, be it cesspool or septic system or large scale type 1 ponds... if the system is healthy and digesting, not getting too much water or chemicals thru.. it should be all but 'permanent'

problems arish when things go in that shouldnt.. or rather.. when too much of the 'bad stuff' goes in.

too much water, any type.. if you are overrunning oyur drain field.. you have an undersized system.

if too much washwater goes in, more of the above, plus much of it will be a biocide.

same with cleaners... most are abiotic.

flush 'meds' don't help either.. nor does that urine stream when you been on a zpack for 2 weeks when you get down to it.

that's when you look at helping it out if it needs it. a bio booster pack.. pumping if it solidified from overuse.. or drain field help if it crystalized or got root invasion.. etc..e tc..

the bulk of my college study was in water systems engineering, both potable, and gre/waste. one of my thesis papers was onthe Mas effluent tunnel project.. and other similar ways to handle waste.

hmm.. lets just pipe it out to the ocean.. Yummy..

soundguy

 

[Artisan]

Soundguy, if you were to build a new house and you needed an onsite waste water system, what would you do? Who's widget would you buy if any? Old School leech field or new school? What system, in your opinion, is the best?

 

[Soundguy]

i used to be old school with perftube and gravel.. but now I'm pretty sold on an infiltrator or similar type systems with plastic sectionals.

that said.. you don't see many seperate wstewater systems in tandem with septic systems her ein my area of florida. 1, you'd need nearly 2x as much land. Any place that is on well water, you can't have the well closer than 70' to a drainfield.. septic or not. with lots sizes as low as 1/4 ac in communities that do not have muniipal or group handles utiloities.. you run out of surface area quick... For industrial purposes.. A DRA/WRA with a perc structure inthe center would be fine drainage and runoff .. grey.. etc..

 

[Taylortractornut]

My dad got started as a kid installing tanks. Later he and i did them together and we always used a leach field with sock pipe. Later we went to the Infiltrator dome sections for surface area. But now near the water we have to start using the treatment plants and im not jumping though hoops to do them.

We never pumped out tank here in 32 years. We started out with a steel and tar tank that used to be standard here. It collapsed, It wa on a weekend and dad was about to head out on the road again so we cut a 500 gallon fuel tanker that we had and made a tank out of it. It lasted about 10 years and never had to be pumped. A large gum tree grew in that area and one day after a storm we went outside and a bird house on the gum tree was 4 feet closer to the ground and the toilet got slow. Had to dig it up. Put in a 1000 gallon concrete tank and we have never had it pumped. We add yeast a few times per year.

When Amy and I bought the house its just the 2 of us so its way under loaded. The biggest problems with tanks are over watering from tubs and showers and washers. And the second is soap and chlorox. We often put in a seperate tank or 2 well tiles and a short field line to the main leach. for the other waters.

 

[Soundguy]

ditto that.

near the coast and in wet areas there are alot of perched septic system and charge pump setups.. not ideal at all down here in florida..

have had to remove some old steel tank structures.. but never installed any.. officially except maybee the od limited use barn system wink wink..

I've never had to have a tank pumped at any place that I built new, and didn't get stuck with previous owners 'sins' already in the tank..e tc. ( knock on wood )

Like I said earlier. people who have to get their tank pumped on a regular interval have a problem / are doing something wrong..

 

[kenmac]

some info on septic systems


http://www.discountportablerestrooms.com/SEPTIC TANK.pdf



Septic Systems - Bacteria and Enzymes

 

[Soundguy]

When Amy and I bought the house its just the 2 of us so its way under loaded. The biggest problems with tanks are over watering from tubs and showers and washers. And the second is soap and chlorox. We often put in a seperate tank or 2 well tiles and a short field line to the main leach. for the other waters.

some people fail to understand this.

when they build, they will opt for the smallest service system they can permit.. and then run 3 tubs worth of water into it a day, plus 2 showers, and 4 loads of laundry and 2 loads of dishes.

bleach and bubbly soap in every load, and all the semi plastic and cardboard (um... applicator ) and synthetic fiber 'sanitary wipes' junk that will flush.. um.. 'napkins' and contraceptives..e tc. stuff that just really don't digest well...

I have a buddy that uses the rv hi digest toilet paper and adds some rv holding tank treatment packs to his system yearly. He's never had a pumpout either.. his place was built inthe 50's.. he HAS had to rebuild his drainfeild and put in new sock pipe after trees and bushes got it.. but we did it ina day with a small backhoe. My stepdad built his place in 72, he was in construction with army corp. of eng in nam... his systems never been pumped.. bi level house 2 story, underground.. it lived thru 3 kids, 2 wives and now plenty of grandkids ... and my mom has this special radar that when an article of dirty clothing hits the floor somewhere it sets off an alarm and she goes and finds it and washes it.. she's go thru washers every 3-5 years my stepdad finally got her an industrial laundromat styel set of front loaders.. and they are holding up good now the last 7ys i heard...

soundguy

 

[rambler]

Septic tank is basically like your tummy, the bugs are slightly different, but really just burns off waste that gets dumped into it. The unburnable stuff drops to the bottom, the very hard to digest stuff like grease floats to the top.

Eventually the bottom fills up with dirt and sand and metal and other tiny bits of solids that can't go anywhere else. Might take 6 months, might take 30 years, but eventually the tank will get full of solids. If the bugs aren't doing a good job, the tank fills with poo as well, tho if it were working well it shouldn't so much...

Sometimes your tummy is upset, sometimes it needs a tumms or some pink stuff to feel better. But hopefully it's mostly always in good shape, working fine. You don't really take any 'bugs' to keep it working, you just eat well and everything is fine.

Likewise a septic tank, the magic powder or the yeast doesn't do a thing for it. The natural bugs that come from you will make it work and work well. Don't add too much water, and don't overload it with too much garbage disposal waste or grease, and keep the harsh chemicals down, and it will work fine for you. Pump it once in a while - none of them will work _forever_, if you hear that the person is too dumb to know or lying to you, they all will fill up with solids that are not digestable - it just depends how many & how well or poorly it is being used. Some frugle folk can probably go more than 30 years without filling the tank, others will fill it in 3 years or less as Soundguy says.

I'd pump any tank of property I bought, and pump it again in 3 years to _see_ where I was at, an experienced pumper will know if it was getting full again or if it would have gone decades. These days grandfathered in septic systems you want to keep working as long as you can, the new permited nes are electrical nightmares with pipes a foot from the surface even tho in my location the frost will go down 4 feet in a cold winter... You don't want to have a problem with your old working setup!

The additives being sold are just snake oil if you have a good septic system, and not a very good bandade if you have a poor one. Waste of money.

--->Paul

 

[Soundguy]

???? tummy? I've always figured that refered to 'stomach'

IMho.. a septic tank is more akin to yer 'GUT' ie intestinal track, with associated flora and fauna.

you don't take any 'bugs' fer yer tummy?

no? how about Yogert with active cultures fer yer GUT then?

just sayin.. since we are making the analogies here.

to go ya one further.. from a guy that owns cows.... I'd call it more like a rumen.. if anything...

Rumen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

soundguy

 

[Stimw]

Seems like a lot of experts everywhere you go with different opinions. I know what I used and what worked for me, that's all I need!
I bought my property in 1998, it had been vacant for over two years. I located the septic tank, removed the lid, stuck a rod in and found 3/4 full of solids and 2" of cigarette butts floating on top. I had so much other work on the place that I just dumped a box of Rid ex in and put the lid back on.
A year later after worrying about it the whole time I pulled the lid again planning on having it pumped. The butts were completely GONE! I put the rod in and the solids were GONE!
Last summer I had to have it pumped and inspected by a state licenced pumper because I was replacing the 35 year old double wide with a new Manufactured Home. After 12 years there was less than 1 foot of solids!
I even had the State Inspector tell me that "none of that stuff works!" I wonder how many pump out trucks he owns?????
It took the Inspector 3 weeks to approve my system for the new home. I consider that time frame disgusting!! I compare it to when I used to work on Semi's , I got one hour to do a FHWA Inspection (Federal Highway Administration) on a Semi Tractor (plus any repair time).
One major problem systems have are Feminine Products, most are not compatible.

 

[woodchuckc]

It may fail tomorrow, but my septic tank and field has been working fine since 1983, when the house was built, without having the tank pumped a single time. I'm toying with the idea of having it pumped this spring just to see how much sediment is in it, but part of me thinks it may not be a good thing to mess with something that doesn't seem to have any problems.

 

[Artisan]

I'm not trashing anyone here, I am just stating a fact. . . I observe this, it has happened many a time and it is what it is. . .

A- So many folks have told me that after they added this, or after they added that "My problems are gone or substancially less" . I am forced to listen to this, and indeed I listen... Not just the guys in this thread...

B- Then these conversations come around and inevitably, the most well versed men, w/ BAs, MA's DRs PHDs and BVDs , (just a joke guys) the most knowlegable of men whom have studied and gone to school and really devoted a lot of their life to the science of septic tanks and systems etc. and these folks "usually" say that additives will not, and do not work. It is hard to not listen to these folks! I am listening, but dang, so many folks have these success stories! It can't be brushed aside!

After hearing the stories from "A", the people in the trenches, I have to take notice! That is when I opened the door to additives, maybe 12 years ago, heck I use BioClean, there are others as well, I am glad I gave them a chance. I simply have to go w/ what I hear from the boots on the ground vs the learned man, as hard as that is. ! If a client spends a lot of money w/ me I give them a can. It puts me out of a job! But my motto is, "I will only do to your property the same things I would do to it if I owned it myself" .

My own house, built in 1955 before I was born. We had kitchen sink drain issues, I was real worried, I cabled and jetted about 6 times, thru a tiny 1.5" hole that has a 5" horizontal nipple before the drop,(it was hard to do in other words and I had to cut the drop head off my 13/32" Spartan cable) and I still had issues, I started using Bio-Clean and I have not had issue for 4 years. I wish I could see underground! I wish I knew hands down, did my repeated cabling and jetting open it up or did the BioClean eat it open! It was both together. :thumbsup:

 

[JasG]

kind of amusing to read about those that think you need to get your system pumped regularly.

if you need it regularly.. you have a problem.

soundguy

What is regular?

I ask due to are you saying it should never need to be pumped?

As I said my dad is over 8-9 year now. He just has it pumped just as PM issue. It may never have needed it because it was never full. His though he routes all of the wash water to a different darin field and never entered the spetic tank.

I did like waste water in college, it was one of the more interesting set of classes I took. We went through 3 treatment plants of different sizes from different towns and the guy who taught it worked at a treatment plant for 20 years before becoming a teacher/professor.

 

[bucktaker]

So I gotta ask is there anything wrong with pumping a system out? Seems to me like it low cost maintenance or even prentative maintence.

I have had my tank pumpe twice in 15 yrs, no problems that Im aware of. We have laundry days where we do lots of laundry loads and always long showers

How would I know if a problem is begininng ??? how do I know if the system is working fine or needs attention?

 

[crackerjack222]

My system is 18 years old with no p0roblems that I know of. My concern is root infiltration. We are on a small lot (1/4 acre) and there are three trees within a few feet of the tank and drain field. Will copper sulfate kill the roots without killing the trees or the beneficial microbes that do the dirty work?

 

[schoolsout]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I've always heard you should pour a beer down the drain/toilet from time to time

 

[JRobyn]

I have often wondered about the "rule" that one should not use a kitchen waste disposer with a septic system. How does well-ground food waste going into the tank differ from the same thing going into one's digestive tract and THEN into the tank? Granted, there is not an acidic "treatment" like in the stomach, but doesn't the bacterial breakdown in the tank "digest" ordinary food waste?

 

[Egon]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I've always heard you should pour a beer down the drain/toilet from time to time

That will help. Even better if it is kidney processed first.:thumbsup: