Sending Oil Samples For Analysis

[art]

How receptive is the dealer and the manufacturers warranty program to an engine that is running but shows oil specs outside of parameter?

When oil specs are out of parameter they are looked at. Not all applications are the same and there can be problems potentially with dust and dirt as well as temperature of operation. We often take samples when things don't look right and different oils do react differently in different engines. Many manufacturers are concerned about longevity and some only care to get it off warrantee! Not all things are created equal!

 

[Tractorable]

My neighbor and I got into a heated discussion about Toyota recommended 10,000 mile oil changes. I believed that if Toyota recommended this in their owners manual then it must be fine. He believed that it was crazy to go 10,000 miles between oil changes.

Blackstone settled it, it and confirmed that the oil sample I took with 11,100 miles on it was still in very good condition and I could even go longer if I wanted to. Clears up some of the mis-information out there.

 

[5030]

Without reading the entire thread, I gauge all my oil change intervals on my vehicles and farm tractors via spectroscopic analysis either from Blackstone or Caterpillar.

Exceptions are small engines and lawn mowers.

 

[Copperhead]

I rarely do UOA's on my personal stuff, but my commercial stuff gets regular UOA's. I start out going about 3/4 the recommended interval. I work it up a little with each oil change. I watch the UOA's and compare each of them. I track the various patterns of wear metals, viscosity, TBN depletion, etc. These things should change at a uniform rate as one extends the drain intervals. If I see a deviation from the pattern, I track that for a couple of changes. One has to compare multiple samples to get an accurate picture of what is going on. One sample isn't enough.

For my Detroit Diesel Series 60 12.7L pre-EGR for instance, the OEM recommended drain is 15,000 miles / 300 hours. I worked it up to 22,500 miles / 450hrs when I started to see variations from the pattern. The oil is still technically good, but I was getting spikes in wear metals and more viscosity change by going over 22,500 miles / 450 hours. The oil may still test good, but there was evidence of what I call a "food fight" inside the engine by taking the intervals longer as evidenced in the variations from the pattern. So I settled in on 22,500 miles / 450 hours, which is 50% longer than the OEM recommended interval.

How did that work out? The engine now has 1,019,320 miles on it. It is all original except for a water pump. Original turbo, injectors, etc. And it uses only about 1 quart of oil in about 11-12,000 miles at the most. Engine still works every day.

 

[Cat_Driver]

My neighbor and I got into a heated discussion about Toyota recommended 10,000 mile oil changes. I believed that if Toyota recommended this in their owners manual then it must be fine. He believed that it was crazy to go 10,000 miles between oil changes.

Blackstone settled it, it and confirmed that the oil sample I took with 11,100 miles on it was still in very good condition and I could even go longer if I wanted to. Clears up some of the mis-information out there. View attachment 619573

Years ago I bought a VW and the manual said change every 3K miles, while the european manual said change every 10K miles.
Same vehicle, same engine, etc. etc.

No funny business there people!. Buy more oil and waste your mony in the USA.

For the last 50 years I change my oil when I feel like it, not by time, miles, age, anything and I've never ever had an oil related engine problem, and that's with a couple of dozen vehilces and a half dozen commercial trucks in my business.

Longerst engine oil/hydraulic fluid change on a tractor was 15 years NOT A TYPO 80's Kubota M4500.

Longets oil change on a vehicle a 1998 For Exporer - 60, 000 miles. Same filter some added oil as needed.

The Explorer was a dealer buyback and I swore I wouldn't put a dime in service in that vehicle as they were going to give me a replacement any way.

As a kid my first car was a 1969 Camaro RS 350. 60K miles on her before I sold it and I bet I only changed the oild three times that I can remember.

 

[5030]

Years ago I bought a VW and the manual said change every 3K miles, while the european manual said change every 10K miles.
Same vehicle, same engine, etc. etc.

No funny business there people!. Buy more oil and waste your mony in the USA.

For the last 50 years I change my oil when I feel like it, not by time, miles, age, anything and I've never ever had an oil related engine problem, and that's with a couple of dozen vehilces and a half dozen commercial trucks in my business.

Longerst engine oil/hydraulic fluid change on a tractor was 15 years NOT A TYPO 80's Kubota M4500.

Longets oil change on a vehicle a 1998 For Exporer - 60, 000 miles. Same filter some added oil as needed.

The Explorer was a dealer buyback and I swore I wouldn't put a dime in service in that vehicle as they were going to give me a replacement any way.

As a kid my first car was a 1969 Camaro RS 350. 60K miles on her before I sold it and I bet I only changed the oild three times that I can remember.

You must be one of those people that when you pull the drain plug, chunks come out.....:mur:

 

[newbury]

Bumping thread mainly because I'm wondering if there are better UOA sites than Blackstone.
I used Blackstone for my VW TDI, ended up being useless to me because VW bought the car back at about 70K.

I've used Blackstone for my F350. Everybody was recommending changes at 3 or 5 K. That's about 4 gallons of oil, plus filter, plus labor and disposal. Blackstone said I was good to go at my oil change at about 150K after running the oil/filter for about 20K (and testing every 5k). Figure I saved myself at least 3 oil/filter changes.

Now I've a Ford Escape due it's first oil change and I want to set a baseline.

So is Blackstone still the best bang for the buck for a UOA?

 

[5030]

Caterpillar Diesel offers a analysis service much like Blackstone, prepaid mailers and all but I still use Blackstone anyway. In fact I just sent off samples from 2 of my tractors. On my F350 7.3, I still change at at 6k and use Nano Borate additive. Had the valve covers off last year and she's as clean underneath as when new.

 

[shooterdon]

Blackstone Labaratories Oil Analysis Kit - Engine & Transmission Oil Testing - PartsVu
Cost $28

An oil change on my tractor takes less than 2 gallons. I bought this stuff for $35:
Amazon.com: Shell Rotella T5 Synthetic Blend 1?W-3? Diesel Engine Oil (1-Gallon, Single Pack): Automotive

The LS manual calls for an oil change every 300 hours. I think that is too long, so I will likely change it at 150-200 hours or so...likely just before or after winter depending on the hours on the clock. I am a hobby user, and have put on 135 hours in the last 18 months. .

Spending $28 to extend oil change intervals does not make a lot of sense. I suppose I could go 300 hours and follow the recommended interval but $50 for an oil and filter change every 12-24 months seems like cheap insurance on a $30k+ investment.

Cannot believe anyone would go 15 years without an oil change on a tractor unless it just sits there and is hardly ever used. 60k miles on a gas vehicle is not smart IMHO. My car went 300k miles...I used full synthetic every 10k miles. It ran great but got totaled. One reason I will pay a bit more for a used vehicle that has maintenance records.

 

[5030]

I don't use an oil analysis to extend oil changes, I use them to determine issues that may be coming up like day a leaking head gasket or bearing failure internally. While Blackstone might tell me my TBN numbers are still good and I can extend, I don't. Oil is cheap, repairs are not.