Seller reneges...options?
- Thread starter ultrarunner
- Start date
- Views: 4288
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My understanding was that the seller was agreeing to hold the tractor -- maybe I read that wrong.)</font>
"The seller and I agreed on price and delivery was set."
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( In any event, if it wasn't in writing, my guess is the Statue of Frauds would apply anyway.)</font>
Interesting point, here. The Statute of Frauds does not actually require that the contract itself be in writing, but that there be some evidential memorandum or other writing that indicates that an oral contract exists. If there is no writing, the oral contract still exists, but it is voidable.
What's interesting is in this day of electronic communication, what constitutes "writing"? Photos were sent. The seller emailed the buyer that the tractor had been sold. Without more information, one could envision a scenario that the entire exchange, or substantial amounts of it, were by email. If so, the emails could be patched together to be sufficient "writing" to satisfy the Statute of Frauds. I admit I'm doing some "supposing", here.
Regardless, after re-reading all of the messages, it appears that the buyer did not suffer sufficient detriment to require a damage award. He didn't travel to pick up the tractor, he probably didn't pass up a good deal on another tractor because of the seller's promises, he probably just suffered disappointment. So, while there is an oral contract, and the real possibility of some sort of evidence to satisfy the Statute of Frauds, it probably is just a nice technical point of law, and no point in pursuing it because there was no real damage. About the only thing that could possibly be ordered would be specific performance; the seller has to deliver the tractor to the buyer in return for the payment. That would probably only apply to one of a kind items, that is, if there are no other similar tractors available at a similar price.
Bottom line, I think I was right that there was an oral contract, very possibly enforceable, but probably wrong about damages, unless the buyer can document how he was hurt.
"The seller and I agreed on price and delivery was set."
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( In any event, if it wasn't in writing, my guess is the Statue of Frauds would apply anyway.)</font>
Interesting point, here. The Statute of Frauds does not actually require that the contract itself be in writing, but that there be some evidential memorandum or other writing that indicates that an oral contract exists. If there is no writing, the oral contract still exists, but it is voidable.
What's interesting is in this day of electronic communication, what constitutes "writing"? Photos were sent. The seller emailed the buyer that the tractor had been sold. Without more information, one could envision a scenario that the entire exchange, or substantial amounts of it, were by email. If so, the emails could be patched together to be sufficient "writing" to satisfy the Statute of Frauds. I admit I'm doing some "supposing", here.
Regardless, after re-reading all of the messages, it appears that the buyer did not suffer sufficient detriment to require a damage award. He didn't travel to pick up the tractor, he probably didn't pass up a good deal on another tractor because of the seller's promises, he probably just suffered disappointment. So, while there is an oral contract, and the real possibility of some sort of evidence to satisfy the Statute of Frauds, it probably is just a nice technical point of law, and no point in pursuing it because there was no real damage. About the only thing that could possibly be ordered would be specific performance; the seller has to deliver the tractor to the buyer in return for the payment. That would probably only apply to one of a kind items, that is, if there are no other similar tractors available at a similar price.
Bottom line, I think I was right that there was an oral contract, very possibly enforceable, but probably wrong about damages, unless the buyer can document how he was hurt.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( About the only thing that could possibly be ordered would be specific performance; the seller has to deliver the tractor to the buyer in return for the payment. That would probably only apply to one of a kind items, that is, if there are no other similar tractors available at a similar price.)</font>
Well and besides that there is someone else who legitimately owns the tractor and would have much more claim to it then the complainant since he paid for it and took possession of it.
Well and besides that there is someone else who legitimately owns the tractor and would have much more claim to it then the complainant since he paid for it and took possession of it.
Poncho
Gold Member
Junkman... you originally indicated "examining" something. Regardless if your looking at tractors, cars, antiques or whatever... to me this means a close up personal inspection... and not just looking and relying on pictures, sales history etc. I'm an auto enthusiast also and realize a lot can be missed through just pictures.... even though they may be worth a 1000 words, you would still be missing a lot of the story. I personally wouldn't drop a bundle on something that is long distance without an inspection. But there are a lot that do this... and as you indicate pictures may be involved, or you may know someone in the area who could inspect it for you etc. I also believe in contracts/binders.... but a contract or binder is not always going to be there nor do I always use them.... as you or someone else posted, I consider what it is I'm buying, the vibes from the seller etc. The original poster indicated their dissatisfaction about a tractor being sold out from under him after a verbal deal had been struck, and asking what his options were... obviously there was a comfort level initially. I agree with a lot of the other posters that this just needs to be chalked up to experience with verbal contracts and the need to move on for another tractor. There are still many people out there that are good for their word...and there are many more fraudulent people out there.
OP
ultrarunner
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2004
- Messages
- 29,282
- Tractor
- Cat D3, Deere 110 TLB, Kubota BX23 and L3800 and RTV900 with restored 1948 Deere M, 1949 Farmall Cub, 1953 Ford Jubliee and 1957 Ford 740 Row Crop, Craftsman Mower, Deere 350C Dozer 50 assorted vehicles from 1905 to 2006
Thanks for everyone's input.
In retrospect, I posted to see if my experience was an isolated case or more the norm. From reading the posts I have learned that there still are a lot of honorable people out there!
Even though the terms of my purchase were in "writing" (emails), I am not looking to go after anyone...just advice for the future.
I am sure that I will get over my disappointment in a couple of years!
Thanks again!!
In retrospect, I posted to see if my experience was an isolated case or more the norm. From reading the posts I have learned that there still are a lot of honorable people out there!
Even though the terms of my purchase were in "writing" (emails), I am not looking to go after anyone...just advice for the future.
I am sure that I will get over my disappointment in a couple of years!
Thanks again!!
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am sure that I will get over my disappointment in a couple of years!)</font>
The second you buy something better somewhere else I'm sure /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Good luck.
The second you buy something better somewhere else I'm sure /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Good luck.
I'm a frustrated, wannabe lawyer. I've been fascinated with the law most of my life. However, I was raised in a poor, uneducated family. It was an era when people were expected to take a job appropriate to their economic station and maintain it for life. I was very naive. Somehow, I got it into my head that one had to be of a certain status to be a lawyer; I believed that one had to be invited to law school, not that one could fight to get in.
By the time I learned differently, circumstances kept getting in the way. I started college at age 22, but didn't graduate until I was 31, doing most of it at night (Boston U's Metropolitan College). I planned to go to night school at Suffolk Law in Boston, but at age 32, we moved to Florida -- and there were no night law schools within commuting distance. I couldn't afford to quit and go to day school because I had a family to support.
I have regrets, but no bitterness. I've had a great life. I remain fascinated by the law, and I think I might have made a good attorney.
By the time I learned differently, circumstances kept getting in the way. I started college at age 22, but didn't graduate until I was 31, doing most of it at night (Boston U's Metropolitan College). I planned to go to night school at Suffolk Law in Boston, but at age 32, we moved to Florida -- and there were no night law schools within commuting distance. I couldn't afford to quit and go to day school because I had a family to support.
I have regrets, but no bitterness. I've had a great life. I remain fascinated by the law, and I think I might have made a good attorney.
BigAl
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2003
- Messages
- 579
- Tractor
- Kioti DK45TLB
Hi Junkman ,
Actually I never did meet the man in person until the the deal was closed . He lived in Washington and I was in Calif at the time . We emailed and talk two times on the phone .I sent him the papers ,he signed them and sent me the full amount . I can agree with what you say but thats not the way I ever conducted my bussinesses .I have made many deals your over my life involving large sums and a lot of them were on my word or a handshake . Yes , I realize that is not the way business is done now . It cuts to many lawyers out of the picture .Well , I never had much use for lawyers anyway . Guess I must have done something right . I retired at 48
Big Al
Actually I never did meet the man in person until the the deal was closed . He lived in Washington and I was in Calif at the time . We emailed and talk two times on the phone .I sent him the papers ,he signed them and sent me the full amount . I can agree with what you say but thats not the way I ever conducted my bussinesses .I have made many deals your over my life involving large sums and a lot of them were on my word or a handshake . Yes , I realize that is not the way business is done now . It cuts to many lawyers out of the picture .Well , I never had much use for lawyers anyway . Guess I must have done something right . I retired at 48
Big Al
MossRoad
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 66,423
- Location
- South Bend, Indiana (near)
- Tractor
- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
Right! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Junkman
Super Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
But EBay is a binding contract, and anyone honest would have gone through with the deal no metter what. Right? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif )</font>
eBay makes you think that there is a binding contract, however, I am not certain that one actually exists in all states. I would love to hear from the lawyers on the group as to the finite details of whether the "contracts" are actually enforceable under law. Most e bay sales are done by honest people and problems never arise, but there are "non performing" bidders many times and I don't know of any thing that has ever been done other than to cancel their bidding identity. Even then, that takes a while before it actually happens.
But EBay is a binding contract, and anyone honest would have gone through with the deal no metter what. Right? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif )</font>
eBay makes you think that there is a binding contract, however, I am not certain that one actually exists in all states. I would love to hear from the lawyers on the group as to the finite details of whether the "contracts" are actually enforceable under law. Most e bay sales are done by honest people and problems never arise, but there are "non performing" bidders many times and I don't know of any thing that has ever been done other than to cancel their bidding identity. Even then, that takes a while before it actually happens.
AndyM
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 2,369
- Location
- NW PA, USA
- Tractor
- 1948 Ford 8N and 1993 Toro WheelHorse 520H
It amazes me how many people think Ebay is a big joke. I've seen a million items that get relisted because the original buyer never went through with the deal.
If you don't want to go through with the deal, don't bid on the item in the first place! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I didn't start listing items on Ebay until a couple of weeks ago, and some people get caught up in the bidding. When they bid higher than they wanted, they change their mind about buying the item and you never hear from them again. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Junkman, do you this problem often?
If you don't want to go through with the deal, don't bid on the item in the first place! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I didn't start listing items on Ebay until a couple of weeks ago, and some people get caught up in the bidding. When they bid higher than they wanted, they change their mind about buying the item and you never hear from them again. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Junkman, do you this problem often?
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
If you don't want to go through with the deal, don't bid on the item in the first place! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)</font>
If I'm not obligated to buy and another pops up cheaper, guess what.....
If you don't want to go through with the deal, don't bid on the item in the first place! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)</font>
If I'm not obligated to buy and another pops up cheaper, guess what.....
Junkman
Super Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It amazes me how many people think EBay is a big joke. I've seen a million items that get relisted because the original buyer never went through with the deal.
If you don't want to go through with the deal, don't bid on the item in the first place! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I didn't start listing items on EBay until a couple of weeks ago, and some people get caught up in the bidding. When they bid higher than they wanted, they change their mind about buying the item and you never hear from them again. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Junkman, do you this problem often? )</font>
I don't have this as a problem because of the type of item that I sell. They usually can't find my items on e bay very often and if they do, they sell quickly. There are a lot of tire kickers and other strange types there, but that is not my problem. Usually they do come through with the money. I finally got paid in full for the fire extinguisher, but it was a nip and tuck type transaction. The more that they spend, the harder that can be to deal with..... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
If you don't want to go through with the deal, don't bid on the item in the first place! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I didn't start listing items on EBay until a couple of weeks ago, and some people get caught up in the bidding. When they bid higher than they wanted, they change their mind about buying the item and you never hear from them again. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Junkman, do you this problem often? )</font>
I don't have this as a problem because of the type of item that I sell. They usually can't find my items on e bay very often and if they do, they sell quickly. There are a lot of tire kickers and other strange types there, but that is not my problem. Usually they do come through with the money. I finally got paid in full for the fire extinguisher, but it was a nip and tuck type transaction. The more that they spend, the harder that can be to deal with..... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I doubt that I, nor any one with a lick of common sense, would buy any used vehicle without first examining it. )</font> Hey, I may not have a lick of sense, but I bought my Allegro motorhome on Ebay from Ft. Lauderdale (350 miles away) with only pictures to go by. The price was good enough that the few minor problems I found were no big deal. A number of years ago, a friend was selling his 1957 Cadillac Fleetwood Broughm through Hemmings, and a guy from Australia sent him a deposit and asked that it be held for two months until he arrived in the US. He arrived with a little satchel, pulled out the balance in cash and paid for it before John ever took him to the garage to see it. Price was only $13,000 and before the man drove off in the car, he told John that he had already sold the car for $38,000 to someone in Australia. John
