Saving electricity

[Larry Caldwell]

I happen to know a little bit about thermodynamics and I disagree with the above theory that a warmer ambient temp makes a more efficient freezer. That's just totally silly.

Right information, wrong reason. The compressor works fine, but the control circuitry doesn't. If the ambient temperature drops too low, it won't turn on the compressor, and the freezer warms up. Older freezers didn't have this problem. My parents bought their first chest freezer in the '50s, and it worked fine on an unheated porch. My new Sears Energy Star chest freezer stops working if the temperature in the garage drops too low.

 

[chopped]

A CLOTHS LINE is a great idea. I have to use softners in the wash to keep the towels from being stiff.
But its a great saver for me here.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Things I have done to reduce electricity use:

Install a solar water heater. They are much cheaper than solar electric, and pay back much quicker. Coils on the back of the wood stove provide hot water in the winter when the sun doesn't shine.

Put timers on lights that kept getting left on, like the garage lights.

Replaced old CRT televisions and computer monitors with flat panel units. The new LED TVs are particularly efficient.

My new desktop computer uses less than half the power of my old one, but laptops are the best at conserving power. Set the computer to hibernate when not used.

CFLs throughout the house, with dimmers on conventional bulbs that can't be replaced.

New doors, windows and insulation. When we remodeled and had the walls open, all the plate penetrations got foamed. Exterior walls are well insulated, but when I replace the siding I'm going to add a layer of foam-core for a thermal break insulation system.

Install an attic fan.

Solar tube in the dark central hallway, and a skylight in the bathroom in the middle of the house. The solar tubes are very efficient, the skylight not so much, but the bathroom is one room where CFLs just won't work and daylight does.

Task lighting in the shop. Low hung high intensity fluorescents over the work benches rather than lighting the whole place bright as day. Timers on the lights in all outbuildings. I have two goose neck fluorescents with big magnifying glasses that are a big help to old eyes.

Clean the dryer duct. It's no wonder the dryer was taking forever to dry clothes, it couldn't push any air through the vent. Lowes sells a duct cleaner kit.

 

[chkntrktr]

A fellow at work was grousing about his elec bill a while back. I asked him if he wanted to carry water in or draw it out of his well, or use kerosene lamps and candles. My point to him was yes it's high sometimes, but for all we do with it for now it is still a bargain. Just like gas, when my outgo on it gets more than I like, I cut back as much as I can.
3930Dave, in post #48 you mentioned new growth and how the infrastructure can't always handle it. How true. The local leaders try to lure businesses around here by giving tax breaks but tell us that the new businesses will increase the tax base. I don't know how that works if they don't pay any for x amount of years and then pay lower rates for another x amount of years. In post #46 you mentioned execs and their pay. Their overhead in exec. pay and packages is a monster that the consumer has to feed, and this is true in many goods and services we buy (just look at healthcare). These execs are also some of the people that come with the ideas such as those meters.
dmccarty Post #49 you mentioned Duke and Progress merger. I am not on Duke, we are served by Blue Ridge ( a co-op), but whatever happens will have an effect on us as we buy power from Duke. It will be interesting but I am afraid the consumer won't gain anything from it.
Having said all this, I still remember my parent's words "TURN THAT LIGHT OFF!!!"

 

[bearhawk]

Natural gas generators don't use steam, they feed the gas directly into turbines and use the turbines to turn the generator. Boiling water to make steam wastes a huge amount of energy, and is only practical if the energy is nearly free, like nuclear or coal.

Huh?

Natural Gas

Almost all of the natural gas used in America comes from America, where it is extracted from natural resources right here on our own soil. Once extracted, it痴 delivered to power plants via pipelines. The natural gas is used to boil water into steam which turns a turbine and powers a generator. Voila! Electricity! Natural gas offers benefits over other energy sources like coal and oil it burns clean, without soot, smoke or undesirable byproducts like ash that must be buried or hauled away. And, recent advances in technology have unlocked vast supplies of natural gas enough to fuel our nation for generations. To put that in perspective, America is now seen as having more natural gas than Saudi Arabia has oil.

 

[uglyboywith11fingers]

Natural gas generators don't use steam, they feed the gas directly into turbines and use the turbines to turn the generator. Boiling water to make steam wastes a huge amount of energy, and is only practical if the energy is nearly free, like nuclear or coal.

Am I going to have to raise my question about loose screws again ???

Pete

 

[techman]

Actually some older power plants have been converted to NG, and they do boil water to steam and use conventional steam turbines. Newer plants do use gas turbines to to burn NG directly in the turbine. No water is boiled. The newest large scale power plants are combined cycle operations. They burn NG in a gas turbine. The exhaust from the turbine is used to boil water which drives a steam turbine on the same shaft as the gas turbine. This effectively captures a lot of the waste heat in the gas turbine's exhaust. A gas turbine has an efficiency of 35-40%, compared to about 30% for a steam driven plant. A combined cycle plant can operate close to 60% efficiency.

paul

 

[uglyboywith11fingers]

Actually some older power plants have been converted to NG, and they do boil water to steam and use conventional steam turbines. Newer plants do use gas turbines to to burn NG directly in the turbine. No water is boiled. The newest large scale power plants are combined cycle operations. They burn NG in a gas turbine. The exhaust from the turbine is used to boil water which drives a steam turbine on the same shaft as the gas turbine. This effectively captures a lot of the waste heat in the gas turbine's exhaust. A gas turbine has an efficiency of 35-40%, compared to about 30% for a steam driven plant. A combined cycle plant can operate close to 60% efficiency.

paul

Larry Caldwell, I owe you an apology... the following is from the Ontario Power Authority website:

Halton Hills Generating Station is a natural gas-fired combined cycle electricity generating facility with a contract capacity of 641.5 MW built along the Highway 401-407 Industrial Corridor in the Town of Halton Hills.

The facility is based on a 2x1 configuration consisting of two 擢 class combustion turbine generators (CTG), each exhausting into its respective heat recovery steam generator (HRSG) with the combined steam supplying a single steam turbine generator.

Each CTG/HRSG can operate separately. An air cooled condenser has been selected for steam cycle cooling. The HRSGs incorporate natural gas fuelled duct burners which can be used to increase steam production for additional output from the steam turbine generator.

The plant is connected to Hydro One 230 kV circuits T38B and T39B between Halton Transformer Station and Hornby Junction to feed into the Ontario electricity market administrated by the Independent Electricity System Operator.

Location: Halton Hills, Ontario

OPA Contracted Capacity: 641.5 MW

Developer: TransCanada Corporation

Technology: Natural gas-fired, combined cycle

Turbines: Two 擢 Class combustion turbine generators with dry low NOx combustors, One steam turbine generator

Commercial Operation Date: September 1, 2010

 

[3930dave]

Nat Gas gets a vote from me. It is a pretty good choice, as both Canada and the USA have quite a bit, and it is much easier to burn cleanly, than coal.

The Germans have done a pretty good job cleaning up coal emissions, possibly because they don't have the same easy access to Nat Gas, but most jurisdictions here don't want to spend that kind of $ cleaning up coal. So, mostly our coal here is worse than Nat Gas.

NIMBY issues often come up, regardless of the generating source.

Global News | Huge transformer arrives at cancelled natural gas plant in Mississauga, Ont.

I'd actually forgotten that TWO Natural Gas plants in the Greater Toronto area were recently cancelled by our provincial Gubmint. Same "leaders" that shut down coal plants, then wussy out when a couple of nimby groups start whining.

(Hmmmm.... any chance we are creating a crisis, to drive an agenda ?).

My logic would be "Well, if you have such a concern about burning of Nat Gas, then we'll just shut off the lines to your neighbourhoods, we'll get that done right away".

(For most cities in Ontario, a very high % of residential heating is Nat Gas).

Then, we have the people whining about wind turbines.....

So.... the person who joked about kerosene lamps, carrying water.... well, that might be where we are heading here, during peak summer and winter periods at least.

A buddy has a whole house Generac running on Nat Gas.... I should probably read up on 'em sooner rather than later.

Rgds, D.

 

[dmccarty]

Bingo, Dan. I've observed that often the most vocal proponents of Free Markets are the people that do NOT participate in one.

Here, to create the PERCEPTION of a Free Market, you can sign up with other companies for the consumption ONLY portion of your electric bill. Meanwhile, the incumbent is awarded enough fees and slush fund charges (regardless of what you decide to do) that even if you switch "providers", it is revenue neutral (at worst, typically they are making more money regardless) for the incumbent utility.

A sham, at best.

I do not want ANY utility controlled automation in my house, for several reasons.
...

The power company keeps sending me mail with a great incentive of $25 a YEAR to be able to turn off my heat pump as they wish. :laughing::laughing::laughing: Wow, $2 a month. Let me jump right on that deal. NOT! If the incentive was $25 a MONTH then I might even think about it. :laughing:

The wife is reptilian. She does not like cold. I think she finally gets warm in August. Maybe July at the earliest. Last week we had a heat wave and had to turn on the AC a couple of afternoons. I thought for sure this weekend we would have too as well but we opened the windows which cools down the house at night and it was not TOO humid with the windows open so we managed without AC. During late afternoon it was 83 on the thermostat which is behind the TV. Away from the thermostat it was 80-81ish. We have 10 foot tall ceiling which helps remove the heat so it was comfortable.

We do have a whole house fan that we use a few times a year. It is good for sucking the heated air out of the house within a short period of time. This only works though if the humidity is not too high otherwise the wet air is brought into the house and not much was accomplished.

Humidity is the problem. We can tolerate pretty high temperatures but with humidity the windows get closed and the AC is turned on. If it is cool at night we can open the windows to cool down the house. The coolness will last until late afternoon when we have to turn on the AC. This works until the real heat of the summer when the temps get into the 90's. Our power bills are highest in the summer because of AC but the highest bill has been about $185. Usually $150ish in the summer. Our average is $120ish. Heating with wood really saves us money.

Cleaning clothes I guess costs us $30 a month and heating water is $30ish a month.

People complain about paying the power bill but I am thankful I have power. Having to live without AC in the heat and humidity is NOT fun. Been There Done That. Paying $1-2 a day for AC comfort is worth it. Though I cringe when I see the power bill.

Later,
Dan