Satoh S650G Running Rough

[KevinKutolowski]

My Satoh is running rough, missing, trying to backfire and tries to cut out. I have replaced the points, cap, rotor and plug wires and set the timing. This started about three weeks ago when cutting the grass. It ran fine then it heated up and started to run rough, back fired especially under load. after that it would run fine until It heated up. Now after I replaced all the above it runs rough all the time. Any suggestions? I do have the shop manual.

 

[5030]

What color is the exhaust?

 

[KevinKutolowski]

A little gray at start up, then clears

 

[JohnMiller3]

<font color="blue">...It ran fine then it heated up and started to run rough... </font>

Head/head gasket check... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[s1120]

<font color="red">Head/head gasket check </font>

I hate to say it, but I think John may be right. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. How hot did it get when it started acting up? REAL hot? Are you losing any coolant? First thing I would do is with the motor cool, pull off the radator cap. Fire it up, and let it warm up. Do you see any bubbles forming in the coolant? If so looks like you got some tear down to do. If no bubbles, it's time for a compresson check. If you don't have a compression gauge, they are not THAT expencive, or some parts stores may rent them out. If you have low pressure in a cylinder, or most lickly two cylinders next to each other, you have a problem.

 

[5030]

The poster stated that the exhaust was a little grey at startup, then cleared. I'd go with the head gasket too. However, I'd first do a radiator pressure test with the engine cold. If the head gasket is perforated, it's either getting compression gasses in the radiator or coolant in the oil. I wonder if the crankcase oil is milky?

 

[KevinKutolowski]

I just checked the compression is 150+ on all cylinders, the manual lists 145 as the right compression. Also the oil is clean no water in the oil. I really don't think it over heated. I'm talking normal heat up, after about 15 to 20 minutes of running under load (grass cutting 4' bushhog).

 

[5030]

Being the diesel dummy that I am, and the fact that the only 4 stroke gasoline engines I have are on my lawn tractor and pressure washer, I overlooked an obvious fault for which I apologize.

In your quest for finding the problem you said you replaced the points, wires, plugs, etc. Did you replace the capacitor with the points set and the ignition coil. Sometimes, ignition coils will loose their dielectric strength with heat and will internally short. The same thing applies to the capacitor in the distributor.

Again, I apologize, I should have read the post and assimilated it for what it was.

 

[bgott]

You're right, it sounds like a coil or condenser. Ask for a condenser, if you ask for a capacitor you're going to confuse the parts person. They are the same thing though. Also, make sure the little ground strap that runs between the breaker plate and the distributor body is in good shape and the connections are clean, bright and tight.

 

[KevinKutolowski]

The condenser is the one part that NAPA had to order and it did not come in yet. That was my first thought. I haven't checked the coil. Does anyone have a cross number for a coil?

 

[Racechaser69]

I have a universal coil on mine.But the actual echlin replacement # is ICR 23. The lucas # for your condenser(AUTOZONE) is DCJ 422.

Mine used to do the same thing. Mine was fixed by either a ballast resistor wired in line with the ignition or more likely in my opinion was the carb. The little holes plug really easy and keeping it clean is a must for mine to run good.

 

[Racechaser69]

Satoh Replacement Parts

Ignition Parts


Distributor Cap-Echlin (NAPA) Part # EP710
Standard Ignition Part # JH234
Lucas Part # DDJ209
Mazda part#010718202B
Wells Part #

Rotor Echlin (NAPA) Part # EP711
Standard Ignition Part # JR169
Lucas Part # RA77
Mazda Part #
Wells Part #

Points Echlin (NAPA) Part # CS360
Standard Ignition Part # JP8P
Lucas Part #
Mazda Part # 010718210
Wells Part #

Condenser Echlin (NAPA) Part # EP300
Standard Ignition Part # JC34
Lucas Part # DCJ422
Mazda Part #
Wells Part #

Coil Resistor Echlin (NAPA) Part # ICR23
Standard Ignition Part #
Lucas Part #
Mazda Part #
Wells Part #

Spark Plugs NGK Part # B6E BP6ES Bosh Part # WR7DP
Autolite Part # 64
Champion Part # N4C???

Wire Set Echlin (NAPA) Part # 700172 (7MM 4 cyl)
Standard Ignition Part #
Lucas Part #
Mazda Part #
Wells Part #









Charging System


Voltage Echlin (NAPA) Part #
Regulator Standard Ignition Part #
Lucas Part #
Mazda Part #
Wells Part #
Transpo Part # IM-952 (www.transpo.com)

Alternator Part # 14194 (12 volt 35 amp)

Battery Autozone Part #
Part #


Filters


Oil Filter Autozone Part # D332 (Deutsh)
Motorcraft Part # EFL147
AC Delco Part # OF9A
Fram Part #
NAPA Part # 1390
Mazda Part #
Wix Part #


Fuel Filter Autozone Part #
Fram Part #
NAPA Part #
Wix Part #


Air Filter Wix Part # 46270


Belts & Hoses

Inner Belt NAPA Part # (25)7410
Gates Part #
Autozone Part #

Outer Belt NAPA Part # (25)7420
Gates Part #
Autozone Part #

Upper Hose NAPA Part # 8443 (needs trimming)
Gates Part #
Autozone Part #

Lower Hose NAPA Part # 8636 (needs trimming
Gates Part #
Autozone Part #


Cooling System


Water Pump NAPA Part #
Autozone Part #
Part # 1594

Thermostat NAPA Part # 323-180
Gates Part # 33428
Autozone Part #
Mazda Part # 0150030 ???

Thermostat NAPA Part #
Gasket Autozone Part #
Fel Pro Part #
Mazda Part #


Fuel System


Fuel Pump Carter Part # M70076
NAPA Part #
Mazda Part #
International Part # 1014262C91

Carburetor International Part # 1014333C1 (gasket set)
Parts International Part # 1014325C1 (accelerator pump)
International Part # 1014086C1 (don&#8217;t know what this is)
Federated Part # 30815739B (ONLY THE PUMP IS USABLE !!)



Driveline Parts

Clutch Disc Kubota Part # K66905-13300 (This Kubota replacement has not been
Verified by anyone yet!!)
Pressure Plate Kubota Part # K66591-13400
Throw Out Federal-Mogul Part # 1773
Bearing
Pilot Bearing Federal-Mogul Part # 202-SS














Gaskets

Valve Cover NAPA Part #
Fel Pro Part #
Mazda Part #
International Part # 1014086C1

Head Gasket NAPA Part #
Fel Pro Part #
Mazda Part #

Exhaust Gasket NAPA Part #
Fel Pro Part #
Mazda Part #

Intake Gasket NAPA Part #
Fel Pro Part #
Mazda Part #

Engine Parts

Piston Rings Hastings Part # 2C4277
Sealed Power Part # E664KC

Thrust Washer Federal Mogul Part # 67392AF (not exact match, 3 out 4 were. It is reported you can use them all, you just have to turn
Them 60 degrees)

Piston Pin Federal Mogul Part # 467394
Bearing Set

Rod Bearings Federal Mogul Part # 4-67355 RA (.25MM , .50MM , .75MM)

 

[GaryK]

Sometimes with a condenser, when it gets hot and quits, it quits and the engine dies until it cools, then everything is fine till it gets hot again, then some just quit all together, with a coil, it will give you a lose of power under load or cause a skip. If the coil and condenser don't pan out, try spraying some carb cleaner on all the intake areas such as the base of the carb and manifold, if it smooths out or changes, you have an intake leak

 

[pruntyc]

I'd still bet on the condenser, that is the way they act most of the time. Of course a lot of other things can go bad too. but I've had more condensers act like that, than anything else.

 

[5030]

Kevin:

If you ever come over our way, I promise I'll let you run over me with my Kubota for my stupidity. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[KevinKutolowski]

Well NAPA says the condenser will be in today. If that doesn't work then I'll try the coil. I will post the results of what I find. Thanks for all you help.

 

[KevinKutolowski]

I put the condenser in today and reset the timing and the engine runs real smooth. Thanks again for all you help and parts lists /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[HankPJ]

You're right, it sounds like a coil or condenser. Ask for a condenser, if you ask for a capacitor you're going to confuse the parts person. They are the same thing though. Also, make sure the little ground strap that runs between the breaker plate and the distributor body is in good shape and the connections are clean, bright and tight.

Where is the ground strap supposed to be connected to ? Mine has fully worn away (but new points, cap, wires, etc).