running water lines

[dan_d]

Up until now we've been lugging hoses back and forth every few days (even in winter!) to water our 20+ horses... But this year we're finally going to throw some money at the problem and install automatic waterers to a few of the paddocks Unfortunately for me there isn't an awful lot of topsoil in some spots that I will be running line, and i'm worried that they might not be deep enough to get below the frost line and may freeze over the winter time, which of course would be really *really* bad! I was just wondering if there's a good way to insulate the pipes in the shallow spots just as an extra measure of safety, even tho i think (i hope!) that the horses will be drinking enough to keep the water flowing well enough to not freeze. I thought of that black foam pipe insulation, but seems to be that would just get squashed under the weight of topsoil and lose it's insulation value...


Thanks for any suggestions!
Dan

 

[Kays Supply]

Something to keep in mind. If you use PEX for your line, it can freeze without hurting it. It will take someone up there to give you ideas on insulation that can be buried. Around here the frost line is only 15".
If you Google "underground pipe insulation" there are several good sites. A point that was brought up , that if your pipe is frozen in the ground and the ground shifts, insulation will help keep it from being broken, again an issue that PEX doesn't have.

 

[whistlepig]

Up until now we've been lugging hoses back and forth every few days (even in winter!) to water our 20+ horses... But this year we're finally going to throw some money at the problem and install automatic waterers to a few of the paddocks Unfortunately for me there isn't an awful lot of topsoil in some spots that I will be running line, and i'm worried that they might not be deep enough to get below the frost line and may freeze over the winter time, which of course would be really *really* bad! I was just wondering if there's a good way to insulate the pipes in the shallow spots just as an extra measure of safety, even tho i think (i hope!) that the horses will be drinking enough to keep the water flowing well enough to not freeze. I thought of that black foam pipe insulation, but seems to be that would just get squashed under the weight of topsoil and lose it's insulation value...


Thanks for any suggestions!
Dan

Just curious. What kind of automatic waterers are you installing?

 

[bota7800]

When we built our barn in Colorado we used PEX buried 4' (Nelson waterers and an Iowa hydrant).

It was a major budget item but I was pleased with the install.

You cannot rely on the horses usage to keep the lines unfrozen. You either need insulation and heat (as with Nelson) or drain below frostline (like BarBarA)

 

[whistlepig]

When we built our barn in Colorado we used PEX buried 4' (Nelson waterers and an Iowa hydrant).

It was a major budget item but I was pleased with the install.

You cannot rely on the horses usage to keep the lines unfrozen. You either need insulation and heat (as with Nelson) or drain below frostline (like BarBarA)

I would agree on the Nelson waterers. Pretty expensive and complicated for us to install and worth every bit of it.

 

[bota7800]

I would agree on the Nelson waterers. Pretty expensive and complicated for us to install and worth every bit of it.

A couple access plates in the side would simplify things immensely when working on the valves or wiring (while still keeping it horseproof, of course)

 

[whistlepig]

A couple access plates in the side would simplify things immensely when working on the valves or wiring (while still keeping it horseproof, of course)

I agree. Working on them from the top side with frozen fingers and not dropping something down in the ten foot pit can be a challenge. Ours has been relatively maintenance free. The heater element burned out after it's fourth year. That's the only maintenance I have done on it. We have had several spells of wind chill 30 degrees below. It amazes me how these things won't freeze up.

 

[Egon]

Heat Tape!:thumbsup:

 

[PILOON]

I ran 300 ft from a lake to a chalet and never was able to dig deeper than 12 inches at some places.
Freeze is rated at 4 ft around here.
What I did is used 1 inch poly B (blue stuff) and inserted it in the 4 inch corrugated drainage pipe, burying as deep (up to 4 ft) as I could.
Backfilled with sand flush to top of the black corrugated and laid 2" rigid foam insulation cut in 16" strips over all the shallower locations and then topped with sand to grade with additional heaps over the shallow areas.

My theory was the pipe being inside of the 4 in drainage (not holed type), that the heat from lower debths would migrate to the shallower areas and the foam would aid in preventing frost wherever it was shallow.
Well, it worked for about 15 years until some erosion washed out some sand filled areas.
We fixed that by heaping 4-6 ins of straw over shallow spots as additional insulation.

Another idea is that running water will not freeze!
So if you are in a position to always have a steady flow (more than a mere trickle, but not full blast) you could solve the problem that way.

Also as suggested by EGON, if the distance is not too great, heat tapes is also good.
Again I like to encase in drainage pipe, even with tapes, as to simplify maintainance as well as to obtain that 'heat equalization' effect.
And to add air is as well an insulator.
Sand is also a better backfill as it drains water away and dry sand will prevent, or at least lessen ice formation.

Good luck!

 

[Egon]

Again I like to encase in drainage pipe

That is a very good practice for maintenance purposes. One could even blow hot air through if the lines freeze.:thumbsup: