REVERSE OSMOSIS

[rScotty]

Are there any experts in RO systems out there? I've got some questions and don't have the slightest idea where to go for answers.
rScotty

 

[marchanna]

I’m not an expert but I’ve owned a few. RO was basically developed for lab and industrial use, but people started using them for drinking water. The units with pressure pumps work a little better. You may also need a water softener, because they don’t like hard water.

 

[rScotty]

I’m not an expert but I’ve owned a few. RO was basically developed for lab and industrial use, but people started using them for drinking water. The units with pressure pumps work a little better. You may also need a water softener, because they don’t like hard water.

Thanks, marchanna.
Oh, I guess I should have specified that what I'm looking for is just for drinking water. We're on a well so I already treat and test our water. The water is moderately hard, but we prefer that to soft water.

Did some of the ROs that you tried not work? For that matter, how would you know if it was working or not? What is it about a pressure pump that makes it work better? - better how?

And do you know anything about the RO filters themselves? Are there different grades of filters? There are half a dozen or more different brands of undersink RO units available, but it looks like they It looks like they all use the same filter.

I'm generally good with technology, but can't seem to find much info on household reverse osmosis. I wonder if it really works at all?
rScotty

 

[rekees4300]

Are there any experts in RO systems out there? I've got some questions and don't have the slightest idea where to go for answers.
rScotty

We have an RO system from this company. Recommend them highly. I'm sure they would be happy/able to answer your questions. BTW our pond water no longer tastes like frogs. :frog:

APEC Water Systems - #1 US Manufacturer of Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water Filter Systems

 

[marchanna]

My favourite was a Culligan, but it was very expensive - about $900. It had a pump and a pressure tank, so it had good flow and good filtration. A non-pressurized system typically has low flow if it has good filtration or poor filtration if it has good flow. Culligans are definitely overpriced, but a system with a pump and pressure tank is definitely far superior than the ones that just use the normal water pressure in your house.

The actual membranes I don’t know much about, except that they can be multistage and can perform both mechanical and “reactive” filtration to produce pure and sterile water.

My Culligan had an automatic back flush cycle to extend the life of the filters, but in general they needed replacement about once a year to the time of about $80.

 

[gary49]

Why do you want one? One thing about them, other than they are expensive and produce limited amounts of water, is that the water they make is corrosive.

 

[marchanna]

World Health Organization does recommend against drinking RO water because it can leach nutrients and minerals from your body. But if you have biologicals in your water, it’s much better than that. I don’t have one anymore, but I finally got a precisely spec’d water softener that gives us very soft water without the ‘soft water’ taste.

Completely demineralized water does has the ability to destroy a number of materials. Not technically corrosive because it has a neutral pH, but rather has an incredible ability to solubilize minerals and metals.

 

[Doofy]

We have an RO system from this company. Recommend them highly. I'm sure they would be happy/able to answer your questions. BTW our pond water no longer tastes like frogs. :frog:

APEC Water Systems - #1 US Manufacturer of Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water Filter Systems

Ditto on APEC. I use them and have been very happy. You will need a different membrane on well water than for city water.

 

[RNeumann]

Thanks, marchanna.
Oh, I guess I should have specified that what I'm looking for is just for drinking water. We're on a well so I already treat and test our water. The water is moderately hard, but we prefer that to soft water.

Did some of the ROs that you tried not work? For that matter, how would you know if it was working or not? What is it about a pressure pump that makes it work better? - better how?

And do you know anything about the RO filters themselves? Are there different grades of filters? There are half a dozen or more different brands of undersink RO units available, but it looks like they It looks like they all use the same filter.

I'm generally good with technology, but can't seem to find much info on household reverse osmosis. I wonder if it really works at all?
rScotty

I’ve never had or installed an RO that didn’t work.

Taste is the best way to test the RO unless you need something specific removed from the water.

Most folks get away with a pressure tank or two. However, if you are in a commercial setting or in need of more than 10-20gals of drinking water a day the the pressure pump can come into play. In that system the water is stored in an unpressurized tank and pumped to the faucet- I’ve only done and seen this in commercial settings- like a coffee shop that needs a lot of water in a short amount of time each morning.

Yes

Yes

True- most are a 3M membrane

It does work, and works well!

As far as brands- I haven’t seen a need to spend extra for a name brand. Depending on your water, you will want 1-3 prefilters. Then the RO membrane and finally the post filter- 3-5 total filters.

For a normal kitchen one 3-5 gallon pressure tank is fine. I also run a line to the refer for ice and cold water.

The RO is a very fine filter that is slow- that is why you need to store the water in a pressure tank. It also kicks out 1-2 gallons of water for every gallon of drinking water it makes.

 

[Doofy]

You can check for proper function with a TDS meter (total dissolved solids). R/O water will show considerably fewer dissolved solids than untreated water.

Go to several R/O manufacturing sites and read up on the systems. Prices have really come down in the last 10 years or so. We use it for drinking and cooking.

 

[madpuma13]

Well why didn't I think of this...

Your post is just obvious now that I read/think about it.

My original issue was just looking at the specs and comparing the numbers and not really thinking about them

The 760 has just about the same bucket cylinder digging force (actually a few more pounds than the 860, 4554lbs vs 4435lbs on the 860) and close to the same dipperstick digging force as well.

The 760 has a digging depth of 91.2 inches vs the 103.2 (1 foot less than the 860)

So really I was a little confused why it appeared they had such a similar digging force but one had more reach.

Your post made it obvious that even though the numbers are similar the 860 has to be stronger in its design in order to still apply that same force further out.

I've got it on order and will be here in the next week or so.

 

[madpuma13]

I would ask what are your goals with an r/o system?

Is your water not clean enough visually?
Is your water not clean enough chemically/bacterially?(Did you get it tested)
Does it have a funny smell/taste to it?

If you are looking for a good ro system it'll cost you especially if you need a pump to supplement your pressure. ( 40 psi should be min)

Depending on why you need a supplemental system, there are other filtration methods to get your water clean for about the third of the cost of an ro system.

 

[TheMan419]

If it is just for drinking water look into Brita pitcher or similar. That filter will remove a lot of stuff that makes your water taste bad. If there are biological elements you are needing to remove those filters will not do the job and RO or other higher end like a UV filter is needed.

 

[oosik]

Hey - rekees4300 - I've had frogs AND snakes in my spring. They don't taste bad at all. Its all part of the "country taste thingey".

Generally speaking - there are many multiple ways to treat your drinking water - IF NECESSARY. RO is not considered the best method unless absolutely necessary.

 

[rekees4300]

Hey - rekees4300 - I've had frogs AND snakes in my spring. They don't taste bad at all. Its all part of the "country taste thingey".

LOL ... different strokes for different folks

 

[Egon]

You can check for proper function with a TDS meter (total dissolved solids). R/O water will show considerably fewer dissolved solids than untreated water.

Go to several R/O manufacturing sites and read up on the systems. Prices have really come down in the last 10 years or so. We use it for drinking and cooking.

Yes; check the RO systems out on the Internet. There are filter variances depending water supply and end quality desired. Also note that they have a wash flow over the RO element which may require a lot of water.

 

[rScotty]

World Health Organization does recommend against drinking RO water because it can leach nutrients and minerals from your body. But if you have biologicals in your water, it痴 much better than that. I don稚 have one anymore, but I finally got a precisely spec壇 water softener that gives us very soft water without the 壮oft water taste.

Completely demineralized water does has the ability to destroy a number of materials. Not technically corrosive because it has a neutral pH, but rather has an incredible ability to solubilize minerals and metals.

I agree with that.....that water can act corrosive in spite of having a neutral pH. It does this even without containing any free ions - in fact, that's the definition of "neutral pH. But even neutral pH water is still a freely mobile liquid composed of polar molecules. So even without any ions, neutral water still has a lot of solubility potential just hanging out there ready and willing to solubilize anything it comes in contact with. Minerals and metals are especially vulnerable.

It looks like I'm going to have to put some more time into understanding osmotic membranes before I can understand even a simple RO system. Osmosis works kinda backwards from the kind of filtration that tractors use.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

I would ask what are your goals with an r/o system?

Is your water not clean enough visually?
Is your water not clean enough chemically/bacterially?(Did you get it tested)
Does it have a funny smell/taste to it?

If you are looking for a good ro system it'll cost you especially if you need a pump to supplement your pressure. ( 40 psi should be min)

Depending on why you need a supplemental system, there are other filtration methods to get your water clean for about the third of the cost of an ro system.

Good questions....yes, I certainly should have mentioned goals first. My goal for the RO was to reduce dissolved manganese and sulphates in our drinking water. Both of these are natural to our mineralized water and within the normal limits - but on the high end and I imagine I can taste them sometimes.

So that is why I was put a simple undersink RO system for our drinking/cooking water.

And come to think of it, I should explain our system first. It's probably not that different from other rural systems.
Our well is a shallow well into a sand and gravel deposit a few hundred feet from a mountain stream.
So the source water is similar to that of a natural spring - but it still requires a pump to bring the water uphill to the house.
House pressure varies between 20 and 50 psi, so the pressure should be sufficient for RO.

At the house the water is treated to several stages of screen & paper filtration followed by charcoal filters (in parallel) & a commercial UV anti-bacteriological system (Atlantic UV, Sanitiron). All real standard stuff from Home Depot - except the UV, which is a commercial size.
We also "shock-chlorinate" the well twice a year, and pay to have a water analysis done on the product water about every few years - or if anything changes.

Last fall I added a simple GE undersink RO with its own faucet. It seems to work. Our basic water tastes good, but the RO seems to taste slightly better. So I was happy until I sent a sample to the lab for testing a few months later, I was surprised to find how much the RO water varied from the well water. Well water analysis remains the same, and in the RO water the mangaese was down sure enough. But the RO water was higher in some other things - including sodium & total dissolved solids (TDS). I wonder why? The lab had no idea, and they were surprised. They even re-ran another sample for free.

So that's when I realized I didn't actually know that much about RO systems. According to the lab director, there is no way that an RO system could fail to lower the sodium and TDS. And so that is why I posted here.
What do others find when they do a water analysis on their drinking water?
rScotty

 

[HillStreet]

I just had a water treatment system and RO installed. Our water test indicated arsenic, manganese, and iron. Based on the test, the water treatment guys installed a water filter and water softener for the whole house, and an RO for the drinking water only.

You need the right filtration for whatever the contaminants are. Start with a good comprehensive water test.

 

[rScotty]

I just had a water treatment system and RO installed. Our water test indicated arsenic, manganese, and iron. Based on the test, the water treatment guys installed a water filter and water softener for the whole house, and an RO for the drinking water only.

You need the right filtration for whatever the contaminants are. Start with a good comprehensive water test.

Yes, that's what I did. Not just one test but a series over the years. Then I added the RO, and it was the test of the RO water that surprised me.
Have you tested the water since adding the treatment system?

BTW, all the water tests seem cost about the same - and none are cheap. I pay about $200/test depending on what boxes I check to look at. I'd recommend your local universisty for the testing - they are least likely to have a bias. Out here in the west, most Ag schools have a soil and water testing dept.
rScotty