Retirement planning

[Travelover]

Maybe if people weren't given a false sense of security by having Social Security, they'd have better prepared for their retirement years?

Yea, that may be true for some, but a large percentage of people just can't get it together. And for those people, do you let them starve or reach into your pocket? Better to force them to save up front in my opinion.

 

[Travelover]

Ah... There in lays the rub, the Quality of life vs the Quantity of the dollars to be gathered, How do any of us know the correct percentage ?

A friend had a saying that when you work, you have a bucket in each hand. One is the money bucket and one is the BS bucket. When both are full, it is time to leave.

 

[ultrarunner]

Ulrarunner
Always remember no matter how much you are valued at work. the day you leave they say cannot do with out you.
And six months later it is old what his name used to work here.

ken

I've seen it go both ways... although the former has not happened for some time here.

Mom retired as a charge nurse after a long career... she was enjoying life and kept in touch with her girls as she would call them.

She was retired for about a year and she met her replacement at the grocery store and they talked... turns out there was a procedure that she was very good at and it was playing havoc with the scheduling... in short, she was asked to come back one day a week to help out... she did this for several years and really enjoyed it... eventually the procedure was phased out and that was OK with her too...

 

[ultrarunner]

Ah... There in lays the rub, the Quality of life vs the Quantity of the dollars to be gathered, How do any of us know the correct percentage ?

Have not figured it out... always taught to make hay when the sun shines and to save for a rainy day...

 

[newbury]

<snip>
I've been averaging 250 hours per month for the last 4 months with only Thanksgiving Day off... the corporate CEO sent a memo stating I had to the end of the year to personally do some facility painting that would require after hours and weekends... my response is I've already put in 600 hours of unpaid overtime this year and asked if I should start packing... I'm the Director of Engineering and just completed a very complicated Tenant Improvement for a new Imaging center... and I'm salaried.<snip>

I feel your pain, due to dumb management (over promising and all contract support being cut) my section, which traveled to Army bases and Reserve centers to train soldiers on equipment we were fielding, went from 2 weeks, Sunday thru Saturday, per month being on the road to 3 and sometimes more. For example I went from 2 weeks at Ft Bliss, Tx and drove to Fort Polk, La for another 2 weeks. Went from two weeks training at the Jackson, Ms. Reserve Center to 2 weeks training at Ft. Campbell. You start taking 4 weeks out of a month and there's not much left for home time. And this was as the war was winding down and we had gotten out of Iraq. Plus half the course was conducted outside, regardless of the weather.

I had been a hard worker and spent many long hours without overtime to support the soldiers in the past, but the managers didn't give a hoot any more. My management chain had no responsibilities at home and spent 2 "weeks" on the road a month, but their "weeks" were Monday thru Thursday and home on weekends. And their on the road was attending conferences etc.
In my last year of work I estimate I had less than 10 weekends at home. It was time to go.

Not sure how it will ultimately play out... hours worked are all documented to the letter.

Benefits started to disappear as early as 1998 and then again a big push in 2008...

The current push is to cut cost and defer maintenance to get operating numbers way down to increase shareholder value in contemplation of sale...

A very good friend of mine shared some advice... he said never do anything rash over a bad day at work... his rule was he had to leave work pissed off 3 consecutive days before leaving for good.

I've shared this with others who found it helpful.

There is another whole element that comes into the picture and that is family... working late is one thing... coming home and hearing about it from a spouse is another... or the kids when you're a no show at their activities...

It's even worse hearing it over the phone while you spend a weekend in a hotel traveling between sites.

Yea, that may be true for some, but a large percentage of people just can't get it together. And for those people, do you let them starve or reach into your pocket? Better to force them to save up front in my opinion.

I fully agree with that, especially when the economy is recovering like it is now.

 

[TnAndy]

When I was a kid, gasoline was $0.25/gallon, and during gas wars could be had for a dime. Last year, 43 years later, I paid over $4.00/gallon, sixteen times as much. I'm planning to live at least another 30 years; how am I going to afford gasoline at $36.00/gallon living on a fixed income? Think my savings will compound as fast as gasoline? Think Social Security will make up the difference? I'm betting it won't even survive the next fifteen years, at least not as we know it now.

Exactly WHY you want some of your retirement funding to involve gold and silver.

When gasoline was 25 cents a gallon, a silver quarter would buy a gallon.

A silver quarter (silver value in federal reserve notes today is 2.83 Current Melt Value Of Coins - How Much Is Your Coin Worth? ) will still buy a gallon of gasoline, average price of gas today being less than 2.83.

Harder to use gold as a comparison, since the price of it was so controlled by the govt from mid 30's to when US folks could "legally" own it again in the 70's, but if you go back to when a one ounce gold Eagle was a $20 coin, and a $20 paper note could be exchange for it, and compare it to today that takes 60 $20 notes to buy that same ounce, there is quite a bit of destruction went on in the paper note.

 

[NY_Yankees_Fan]

If you want to know how inflation will kill your savings and why you need as much as you can check out this web site. A million bucks is not what it used to be!

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2014

 

[300UGUY]

When I was younger say 20s-30s I too resented having those dollars removed from my pay thinking of all the lazy, sorry people who draw SSI. I never thought it would be there when I retired and as most I never made enough to set aside a nest egg for retirement. When they use to send out the SSI statements I would calculate my life's earnings and payments to SSI and the last time I looked at one several years ago, if memory serves me I think my contribution was somewhere in the range of 30-40K dollars without knowing how it's compounded with the investments made I thought heck I'll never be able to survive on that. Well now in my 50s and some severe accidents related to my chosen profession (Roofing) I am disabled. If not for SSDI and W/C insurance I would be one of the people I hear many people complain about the broke looking for handout, food from the food bank living on the dole. I proudly collect my SSDI and comp benefits ( due until death because of laws in place at the time of accident) and am not broke and on the dole.
You may resent paying in now, I assume your in good physical condition and healthy, but what if your life came crashing down today? It can happen you instantly become disabled you may be surprised at what you will need and where it will have to come from. I have been disabled for 5 years and feel I have collected my share minus what ever the compound interest earned on my contributions. To know many look down there noses at us on the dole without knowing our story is a shame. I would give my eye teeth to be able to return to work and gladly pay into a system that would benefit you if you needed to collect. That is how it was created. I can tell you if all I collected was the SSDI benefits I could survive but not as comfortably as I do today. I try to teach my children to save something even 10 bucks a week it adds up. Get serious about saving for retirement you will need it. SS may change some in the future but it has been an evolving program since inception, it will always be there short some societal crash. What would happen to all the elderly and disabled people if it were gone. What would happen to you?

I have seen the same thing. One of my friends had a stroke at 36. He was left with very little use of his right side, and almost no language. He could not work, he and his wife and 4 kids scraped by until he died at age 50. You can make all the plans you want, one bad medical incident, car wreck or tractor accident, and you are no longer "that guy". Your the guy that is on the sidelines.

 

[TomSeller]

I have seen the same thing. One of my friends had a stroke at 36. He was left with very little use of his right side, and almost no language. He could not work, he and his wife and 4 kids scraped by until he died at age 50. You can make all the plans you want, one bad medical incident, car wreck or tractor accident, and you are no longer "that guy". Your the guy that is on the sidelines.

Yes, civilized societies have a safety net for good reasons.

 

[300UGUY]

A very good friend retired from the Phone Company 25 years ago... he went against all advice and did a roll over into his self directed IRA back then.... he has since converted to annuities because he is over 80.

By managing his own investments... he tripled his ATT monthly retirement check from what he would have received if he had left it in and not taken control

And I've known 2 guys who took the cash option on their pensions, and lost their butts on the market. The cash option on a pension is never enough to generate eqiuvilent income. The cash option is seldom a good idea.

 

[300UGUY]

Yea, that may be true for some, but a large percentage of people just can't get it together. And for those people, do you let them starve or reach into your pocket? Better to force them to save up front in my opinion.

The average family income in this country is only 40 or 50K. Chances are, most folks will never earn enough money to save much for retirement. Maybe the top 10 or 15% ? Factory jobs around here are paying up to $20 per hour, or 40k per year. Pay a mortgage, food, utilities, car expenses, and not much is left. If you have kids, forget it.

 

[newbury]

If you want to know how inflation will kill your savings and why you need as much as you can check out this web site. A million bucks is not what it used to be!

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2014

If you own a house and land try putting in your numbers and see what they would be worth today.

My houses are double their inflation value.

 

[ultrarunner]

And I've known 2 guys who took the cash option on their pensions, and lost their butts on the market. The cash option on a pension is never enough to generate eqiuvilent income. The cash option is seldom a good idea.

I don't have any plans for stock market income for my retirement.

The retired engineer is my friend and neighbor and he and his wife, both in their 80's have 160k coming in and this is more than they ever made working... and they did take the cash option for his Phone Company pension and her Hospital Pension...

My plan revolves around having zero debt and investment income from rental real estate...

Way back in 1986 my younger brother and I bought a fixer up home for 65k... 5 bedrooms and two baths here in Oakland... the place had been converted into a duplex by adding a second kitchen and utility meters...

Home is now paid for... taxes rund about $1800 annually and rent is $2300 per month which is quite reasonable for a home in the Bay Area...

Three years rent today more than covers the property cost including all the repairs made over the years...

I know many want no part of investment real estate... yet, it is the one bright spot in my planning that has gone better than planned.

 

[MossRoad]

The average family income in this country is only 40 or 50K. Chances are, most folks will never earn enough money to save much for retirement. Maybe the top 10 or 15% ? Factory jobs around here are paying up to $20 per hour, or 40k per year. Pay a mortgage, food, utilities, car expenses, and not much is left. If you have kids, forget it.

If you make $40k per year you'd be bringing home about $33,000 per year. Probably more with the deduction for say, 2 kids. So, family of 4.

If you spent:
200 per month into a ROTH IRA
500 on mortgage
800 on groceries
400 on utilities
200 on used car and insurance
200 in an emergency fund
200 on clothes
You'd spend about $2500 per month, or $30,000 per year.
You'd have $3000 left over per year to spend on health care and since you have a family of 4 you qualify for the affordable care act.
Once you save up your emergency fund after 4-5 years, you get an additional $2400 per year to use, so you now have $5300 per year left over if you'r lucky.

That $200 per month into a ROTH IRA earning 7% per year would yield you $687,764.00 in 45 years for you to retire on.

Now let's say you get a decent job at $20 per hour and your spouse gets a minimum wage job or two for, say another 20 hours per week. That's an additional $7500 per year.

It can be done with a disciplined approach to building wealth over the long term.

 

[ultrarunner]

You left out cable, cell and go out... and therein lies the rub...

*** Edit

You left out cable, cell and go out... and therein lies the rub... for many!

 

[NY_Yankees_Fan]

If you own a house and land try putting in your numbers and see what they would be worth today. My houses are double their inflation value.

New

Not for me we purchased our home in 1987 for $245K based on the inflation calculator it should be $509K. In 2007 the house next door sold for $525k, the same style home on the other side of me sold for $425k in 2013, the same style house around the block sold for $375k in June 2014.

So I guess it depends on the housing market and what the market will bear.....oh well......

I will find out how much I can get for my home in the spring when it goes on the market....

My home is 3k sq. ft. on 2 acres we pay $12k in taxes with a well and septic. My development has 46 homes all with the same layout and land. Now you know why we are moving!

 

[riptides]

And I've known 2 guys who took the cash option on their pensions, and lost their butts on the market. The cash option on a pension is never enough to generate eqiuvilent income. The cash option is seldom a good idea.

I took my pension and closed it out for the cash option. I turned around and handed it to the market. So far, it looks like a winner. Watch this space in 5 years and we will see what it does.

I got really agressive on some parts of my portfolio, while others are grounded, I figure, why not. Time to make up for lost time.

 

[riptides]

If you spent:

500 on mortgage
...

Not happening in my area. You cannot even rent a 1 bedroom in a decent place for that amount. Some parts in this area, that would be 850-1250 just for rent.

But I get your example.

 

[Travelover]

............
It can be done with a disciplined approach to building wealth over the long term.

Some people will always come up with "yea, but" excuses for not saving. Bottom line is if you don't take it from them with SS deductions and give it back when they are old, they will be penniless. Or will demand support from the "rich" people that had fewer toys and saved and invested their money.

 

[Ken]

You left out cable, cell and go out... and therein lies the rub...

Ultrarunner buying house in the area where you live isn't this kind on shaky ground. What the value after a earthquake that is severe and has been forecast going to happen?
After ever a tornado here and things are blown away the herd of helpers soon fade away leaving you to do most of the clean up. Neighbor helping neighbors usually.

I in vested in land lease for grazing . houses take constant repair if rented .

ken