Retirement planning

   / Retirement planning #141  
Hum, I'm stumped as to how Wall Street is corrupt as a whole. There is certainly criminal activity involved in trading, Martha Stewart a good example. Where there's vast sums of money exchanged, there's crime. We will never get around that. As far as taxes, yes they suck however at the moment I'm not ready to relocate to another country which, by the way, is an option for all of us. Speaking for myself, if I hadn't invested in American business through mutual funds for the last 20 years, I would have missed a great opportunity to retire in comfort early. To each their own.

Martha Stewart was a very small fish. The whole thing was over a trade of 200K, which wouldn't cover some of these guys latte tab. Meanwhile, these banksters are getting bonuses of hundred million + ? And the losses were socialized? I've done pretty good in the market, the last 5 years were probably the best. You gotta fish where the water is.
 
   / Retirement planning #142  
You're missing my point. Those plots certainly call the value of cash into question. I'm asking what the intrinsic value of gold and silver are. What, in your mind, makes gold worth many hundreds of dollars an ounce. Is that value logical?
Even more important how do you ensure your buying and selling gold and not tungsten?
Tungsten Filled Gold Bars Found In New York - Business Insider
fadl.jpg
 
   / Retirement planning #143  
Hum, I'm stumped as to how Wall Street is corrupt as a whole. There is certainly criminal activity involved in trading, Martha Stewart a good example. Where there's vast sums of money exchanged, there's crime. We will never get around that. As far as taxes, yes they suck however at the moment I'm not ready to relocate to another country which, by the way, is an option for all of us. Speaking for myself, if I hadn't invested in American business through mutual funds for the last 20 years, I would have missed a great opportunity to retire in comfort early. To each their own.


I agree. To each their own. IMO, for every "honest guy in a suit on Wall Street, there are 10 crooks. Many will show you fancy spread sheets but are in actually underfunded and insolvent houses. Money managers have figured out how to raid investment vehicles, load them with management fees and service charges. all the while porking the retail investors. The good old boys club pump sectors or individual stocks only to bail out at market open and leave everyone else in the wake. Everyone has a strategy, mine is to keep our earnings away from variables I have no control over.
 
   / Retirement planning #144  
Lucky that gold bar wasn't chocolate filled....
 
   / Retirement planning #145  
If one is to invest in metals, let them be lead cased in brass. Could be worth their weight in gold someday, no pun intended...
 
   / Retirement planning
  • Thread Starter
#146  
I keep forgetting to mention... The OP should consider an Health Savings Account(HSA) insurance plan if one is available. The HSA allows you to save tax free dollars for health care expenses and the money rolls to the next year if it has not been spent. If I had had such a plan when I was younger, we would be much better off money wise, since this money stays around until spent. Later, Dan

We just signed up for a health savings account recently. I need to check out the details but I think only $500 can be rolled to the next year. This is provided by my employer and is at no cost to me so I can't complain.
 
   / Retirement planning #148  
You're missing my point. Those plots certainly call the value of cash into question. I'm asking what the intrinsic value of gold and silver are. What, in your mind, makes gold worth many hundreds of dollars an ounce. Is that value logical?

OK, now we get into the discussion of what is money, and why do we even need it.

Money has several properties that make it money.

1. It must be easily recognized as money. Gold and silver have filled that role for thousands of years.

2. The item serves as a medium of exchange. In order for an item to be considered money, it must be widely accepted as payment for goods and services. Until just very recently, gold and silver did this. Only with the advent of paper receipts for metals, followed by weaning us off even that tie to JUST paper, the world only knew gold/silver. (and many places in the world this is still the case)

3.It is a store of value. In order for an item to be considered money, it has to (to a reasonable degree) hold its purchasing power over time. Again, thousands of years of history show this to be the case. Govt issued paper COULD well do the same, except for the tendency to overprint. The relatively short history of ALL paper currencies shows they have one thing in common....they are all destroyed over time by the govts that issue them.....because they can.

Gold and silver are relatively rare. You can print them up, it takes work to go wrestle it from the ground, which lends to it's 'intrinsic' value.

So, I'll ask you....what is the 'intrinsic' value of a paper note ? WHY is a piece with 100 printed on it more valuable than a piece with 1 printed on it ? Heck, why not just print up a piece with 20 trillion printed on it, pay off the national debt and ask for change ? .......hey, wait a minute...been tried ! :D
 

Attachments

  • ZimbabweTrillion.jpg
    ZimbabweTrillion.jpg
    63.6 KB · Views: 78
   / Retirement planning #149  
If one is to invest in metals, let them be lead cased in brass. Could be worth their weight in gold someday, no pun intended...

Nothing to prevent one from investing in both. I have.
 
   / Retirement planning #150  
Even more important how do you ensure your buying and selling gold and not tungsten?

How do you ensure yourself that some of the hundred dollar bills that guy that bought your Bushhog you had for sale aren't counterfeit North Korean models ? (The US $100 bill is THE most counterfeited paper in the world )

Point is, anything can be faked. Invest in pre-65 US dimes by the $1000 bag. Nobody has bothered to try to duplicate them at this point.
 
   / Retirement planning #151  
Self-sufficiency is really the best plan for economic collapse. Things are going to be difficult no matter what you have to barter with. The more outside dependencies you have in such a situation, the more difficult it is going to be.

For example, no amount of barter goods or precious metal can make something critical to your well-being available if it just isn't to be had at any price. Leading up to that scarcity, the remaining but quickly diminishing objects would become very expensive no matter how you pay for them. The world has always found a way to soak up your resources. :)

Having some gold or silver would help during a crisis, but maybe they are even more valuable after a period of turmoil. Their value is much more certain at that point than some newly issued/valued currency that would begin to circulate I think. By that point, people would not have a lot of faith in paper and perhaps not have a way to acquire much of that new paper currency either. I do think an eventual return to paper would be required to achieve any sort of broadly functioning economic system.

What happens after you survive a crisis and how you would prepare for that is important too.
 
   / Retirement planning #152  
We just signed up for a health savings account recently. I need to check out the details but I think only $500 can be rolled to the next year. This is provided by my employer and is at no cost to me so I can't complain.
I suspect that you have a FSA rather than a HSA. A Health Savings Account (HSA) will roll over 100% of its value into the next year. A Flexible Spending Account (FSA) will only roll over a certain amount ($500ish this year IIRC).

Aaron Z
 
   / Retirement planning #153  
How do you ensure yourself that some of the hundred dollar bills that guy that bought your Bushhog you had for sale aren't counterfeit North Korean models ? (The US $100 bill is THE most counterfeited paper in the world )

Point is, anything can be faked. Invest in pre-65 US dimes by the $1000 bag. Nobody has bothered to try to duplicate them at this point.
I look for the little colored lines. But I'd rather invest in things I can use, like pallet racking, tractor attachments, real estate etc.

My point is that there are a LOT of people on here advocating investing in a malleable metal that has that has gone from $1900 US in 2011 to about $1200 now. 4 years ago there were a lot of people here advocating investing in gold because it was going to go thru the roof. Gambling on something that is driven by big players doesn't make sense to me.
 
   / Retirement planning #154  
I look for the little colored lines. But I'd rather invest in things I can use, like pallet racking, tractor attachments, real estate etc.

I understand. Most of what I have is tied up in very similar real things as well (our farm, the tools that go with it, a sawmill, an excavator, etc). We bought some land in the 90's when it was still fairly cheap. I built (and later sold for a very tidy profit) 3 rental homes on 3 pcs of it, and sold off a 27ac parcel 3 years ago, which we financed at 6%...better return than any CD I can find. So I fully understand REAL things.

MY point is a decent position in precious metals may well pay off down the road as well. The paper game will come crashing down one day if history rhymes. Take it for what it's worth.

My point is that there are a LOT of people on here advocating investing in a malleable metal that has that has gone from $1900 US in 2011 to about $1200 now. 4 years ago there were a lot of people here advocating investing in gold because it was going to go thru the roof. Gambling on something that is driven by big players doesn't make sense to me.

Gold is still going to go thru the roof. When you really get into it, you'll see the paper manipulation that is going on to drive down, and hold down, the price. I suspect the Chinese are behind much of it, quite honestly, allowing them to purchase more and more of it at cheaper prices. When the day comes they announce a gold backed Yuan, that will become obvious.

If you look back just a few more years than 2011, you'll see gold was running 400-600oz. The time to buy anything is when it is not currently the rage......ask all those folks that bought overpriced houses, for example, and now owe more than they would sell for. People buying into the stock market at this time are going to find out the same thing.
 
   / Retirement planning #155  
If we as a nation go through say, another 9/11 coupled with a Katrina, or financial breakdown, ALL rules will change. Canned goods, meat on the hoof, vegetable / crop seeds, etc will be worth much, much more. Good land, both tillable and with game will be worth more. Not to mention, a good rifle, ammo, and one's ability to use that land will be at a premium. A farmer will be worth more than a 7 ft basketball player, for sure. Gold / silver might be worth something in a somewhat civilized nation, but complete breakdown ?, I'll take the gun and ammo.
 
   / Retirement planning #158  
That list is a tad too conservative for my taste. Knowing what I know now (lots of no's there):

- I'd start my Roth IRA at age 18, not in my 20's. 7 years of waiting can cost you HUGE MONEY by retirement age.
- It says nothing about your own college debt (maybe you don't have any, I didn't, my kids might, you might).
- It mentions nothing about starting college 529 savings plans for your children until you are in your 40's. You should start them the day after your child is born. You'll have to contribute a lot less of your own money and get a larger payout at the time your child starts college if you start 10 years earlier.
- I'd go heavier on stocks and lighter on bonds, longer. I like 80-20 and I plan on keeping that mix until I'm drooling on myself and cannot make decisions on my own. Since we live ridiculously below our means, we can ride out any horrible stock market fluctuations.

Other than that, its a pretty good list as a basis for sound decisions. :thumbsup:

We try to double our net worth every 7 years.... that works surprisingly well. See the below chart.

Net worth.jpg
 
   / Retirement planning #159  
I have not read all of the after 5 pages I skipped to the end two.

I see the saving for retirement something everyone should do, also invest in yourself. Early on in 70~80s when I was teen growing up getting a job was difficult low pay, long hours etc. I ended up joining the Air Force, should have stayed longer but Clinton cut force and I was forced out. I left with some good $ as I had a bunch of vacation time saved up & was paid for that as well as moved myself back home from CA pocketing ~8K. Sure I see $8K as not much NOW however back then it was a lot more value. While I got married I also did not last then as she and I had different values on our work (my work and her spending) was a major part of it.

As other said I have never bought a NEW car, heck newest one is 14 years old & I do my own work on them all. I do pay more in insurance as I maintain a fleet of cars just because lol... I have always saved a good amount of my check nothing specific just didn't spend it all. Bouts of no work being unemployed never has bothered me as I always kept plenty of $ in bank in CDs. Well from 200 till 2008 interest was nothing so I cashed out CDs and moved $ into Markets, had back injury put me down so started watching stock trading shows all day. I put my old 401Ks and my IRA into SCOTTRADE and began buying higher yielding stocks and companies. No one other than interest and TV taught me what to look for and how to invest. By 2013 I had tripled my $, but in last year or so I have fallen back to around a double (I'm still good with that vs .02% interest in CDs...)

I have also gone BACK to school (got a Associates in 1997) then again started classes almost 2 years ago to finish my BSEE as part time while I changed career and got new jobs. Working and taking classes at 50 is not easy, however I can't keep up the physical labor after the back injury so had to do something for future... I could probably retire today if I wanted as in a year the farm is paid off & my other half of 20 years will also have her home paid off.

Like others the biggest issue of retiring at 55 or so is health insurance and fact that I now make more $ than I have ever done & finishing my degree will add 20K more to my annual income, so giving that up for relaxation may not be an option for a few years ;)

We also have to look at how SS treats you with the amount you receive per month being based on simply the last 15 years prior to retiring. If you give up working 10 or 15 years near the peak you are likely giving up thousands of dollars a year in SS Benefits as you stop working when you are making the most!


Mark
 
   / Retirement planning #160  
I retired four years ago after a 28 year career at the same company. I was 54 at the time, fed up with mismanagement of the pension and other benefit plans, and fearful that the longer I waited the more the retirement package would suffer. I've always been a budgeter, I track all my expenses in Quicken and spend money toward goals instead of by impulse. To save up the down payment for my first house, I figured out how big a loan I'd need, determined what the payment would be, and started putting that much into a savings account every month. When I finally had enough for the down payment, paying the mortgage wasn't a shock to my little financial system. I always paid a little extra every month, building equity and shortening the loan. All my houses have been fixer uppers, two of which were purchased as distressed (short sale) homes. I did most of the work myself and ended up with exactly what I wanted instead of poor workmanship and somebody else's idea of what would sell. I've only had one new car in my life, purchased with my dad's cosignature when I graduated from college and left town. All the others have been used, and paid for with cash. I maintain them as well, all except for major work and tire changes. I pay off the credit card balance every month, a habit I started after paying off the balance I'd accumulated while I was in school.

I always put enough into the 401K to get the maximum company matching fund payment; anything more went into a savings account or a Roth IRA. The investment options available in the 401K weren't great, but one was Fidelity's Contra Fund, and it did very well before it became bloated with too much money. I tried a series of "investment advisors", but had nothing but bad experiences. After my dad died I started helping mom with her estate, and while dad had done well with that advisor, his replacement was young, inexperienced, and brash, and his losses showed me I'd have to take a more active roll. In '98 I saw Jim Cramer on the Today Show advising people to get anything out of the stock market that they'd need in the next five years. When I looked at my own portfolio, my advisor at the time had it 100% in stocks. I told him to immediately move half into bond funds, then put the rest in low fee stock funds at Vanguard. The advisor wasn't very happy with that, as all of his selections were from his company, and his commissions were cut by more than half. He was even less happy at his annual Christmas client dinner that year as he tried to explain the 40%-50% losses in his client's portfolios and we parted ways shortly after that. I started watching Cramer's Mad Money TV show, but wasn't impressed, so I bought and read his first book. For the first time I was reading about how the stock marked really worked, instead of some crazy chartist theory or clueless hot stock tips. The books aren't anything like the show, and I found the methodologies useful and the background information enlightening. I subscribed to Cramer's Action Alerts service, and I piggy back some of his trades but not all of them. Especially now, as being retired I don't have the time to make up losses from more speculative trades. But because of this background, I feel like I know more about managing money than before, and though I haven't made a fortune investing, I haven't lost one, either.

Something I haven't seen mentioned here yet is the Boeing Study, a correlation between retirement age and age at death. That, combined with my "work to live, not live to work" philosophy were strong motivators to retire as early as possible. People with other job perspectives may choose different paths to retirement, or avoid it entirely.

Before I retired I made up a spread sheet that tracked my living expenses, my estimated pension income, and what I could expect to receive if I sold my current home. I also attempted to make projections about ongoing expenses after retirement based on how I'd like to live, a big difference from the rat race existence of 50-60 hour weeks and steady six figure salaries. When the housing market collapsed in 2009 I really tried to sharpen those projections and started putting in cost of living figures for locations in which I'd like to live. I also asked several retired co-workers I'd stayed in touch with how they knew when it was time to retire. The best answer I got was "Oh, you'll know!".

I started looking at property in some of the areas I'd picked, and made a trip with a realtor to look at a dozen properties one weekend. The last one visited was yet another short sale, located at the end of a dead end road, perched on the side of a canyon with only one neighbor and state owned land on the two other sides. It was about 2/3 the size of my city house and in an area with a lower average income and correspondingly lower cost of living. It matched well with the "Must Have" items on my housing criteria list, but not 100%. The price was well within bounds according to the spread sheet, and after only one offer/counter offer loop, it was mine. Sadly, giving notice to my micro-managing slave driver of a boss was one of the highlights of my career.

The next few years were spent finishing/remodeling the house, taking a few trips, and keeping an eye on the budget. My biggest worry was spending more than I could afford, so my rule so far has been to spend no more than was coming in from the pension while keeping the portfolio balance flat or slightly increasing. Some years are better than others in the stock market, so my spending on big ticket items tracks the performance of the portfolio. That means some years I have had to put off things like a new driveway or, as is the case now, building a shop, but in other years I've been able to make up for lost ground. I think the most important thing I've done is to live pretty much the same way I did while I was working, at least in terms of spending on fun/luxury items. I've had some nice vacations, but I haven't splurged on new cars, extravagant remodeling upgrades, or round-the-world tours. For example, these days I drive around in a 2000 Ford F250 purchased used with proceeds from the BMW 5 series garage queen it replaced. Now that the remodeling is done, I've had time to rebuild an old motorcycle and start on another one, something I enjoy doing now that there's no hurry to finish. This winter I'm heating with a wood stove for the first time, so I'm warmer than in the propane forced air days and healthier, too. I've lived long enough to know that life will always be full of surprises, but I feel like I have more understanding and control over both my time and financial situation than ever before, which I now understand was my main reason for retiring in the first place.

It sounds like the OP is asking a lot of the same questions I did and has made some good financial decisions, too. My advise would be to understand what motivates you in life and how you plan to structure retirement so those passions will be enhanced. I've also learned that it's not a good idea to follow the financial advise of advisers that work for large brokerage and investment houses, and it's far better to learn from the practices and habits of people that have demonstrated real financial success.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

Meyer 8' Snow Plow w/ Bracket (A55272)
Meyer 8' Snow Plow...
207274 (A52708)
207274 (A52708)
2007 JLG E400 AJP TELESCOPIC/SCISSORING MANLIFT (A52707)
2007 JLG E400 AJP...
500BBL WHEELED FRAC TANK (A58214)
500BBL WHEELED...
2014 VOLVO EW210D MOBILE EXCAVATOR (A60429)
2014 VOLVO EW210D...
2012 International 4300 Reefer Truck (A56438)
2012 International...
 
Top