Red Dye Diesel

[Oiltech]

Do any of you run this in your tractors or farm diesel engines?

Is there any compatibility issue with the newer diesel engines?

Is there any issue with leaving fuel sitting in the tank?

 

[rd_macgregor]

I have been using fuel oil for the last couple of years...so far with no issues (including during the winter months). Regular pump diesel is nearly $.40/l more than fuel oil and I resent paying highway taxes to fuel an off-road machine.

 

[Red Horse]

All off road diesel by law is dyed red. If you are using "clear" diesel, it means it is "on road" and you are therefore paying allthe taxes on it. Get caught with "Red" in a highway diesel and you are in deep $$$$$$$ as that is tax avoidance

Biggest issue with "old" fuel is in cold areas where you don't want tohave "summer" diesel in your tank in the winter has it won't have ay cold flow improvers in it.

 

[aczlan]

We run it in our tractors with no problems. At this point, any off-road diesel should be ULSD, so the only difference will be the red dye mixed in.

Aaron Z

 

[RedNeckRacin]

We run it in our tractors with no problems. At this point, any off-road diesel should be ULSD, so the only difference will be the red dye mixed in.

Aaron Z

x2, we get it in bulk and have not had an issues. No tier 4 engines though.

 

[aczlan]

x2, we get it in bulk and have not had an issues. No tier 4 engines though.

Tier 4 engines are designed to run on ULSD, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Aaron Z

 

[Bluegill2]

I only run the red off road, no problems here...

 

[ovrszd]

I run a JD Tier IV road grader. We use ULSD (<5ppm sulfur) dyed fuel. I run the same fuel in my tractor that isn't Tier IV. In Winter I blend the grader fuel 50/50 No.1/No. 2. In my tractor I use No. 2 with Power Service additive. Concern is fuel gelling. As for old fuel, you can add Stabil if it's gonna sit a long time. Anything less than a couple months I wouldn't worry about.

 

[RalphVa]

ONLY time I bought some red diesel, I had some wax dropout problems. Think it was due to a couple very rare 10 F nights we had here then. Haven't had such cold nights with clear diesel in use. I took it back to Exxon and exchanged it, paying a bit more of course.

I like to have the flexibility of being able to take diesel from my 60 gallon tank on the bottom of my generator for the car if I need to. I normally pump out of this big tank for my tractor and then refill the generator tank about once/yr.

When I got the red diesel, I only got a couple 5 gallon containers of it.

Ralph

 

[Katahdin]

Another option is to get the on-road taxes back by reporting the off-road use to the IRS and state governments using tax forms.

 

[eventer79]

We run it in our tractors with no problems. At this point, any off-road diesel should be ULSD, so the only difference will be the red dye mixed in.

This. And I did check up on it recently. There do not appear to be any current regs (that I could find and I'm a pretty good finder) that REQUIRE ORD to be ULSD, but in most cases, it will be. Sadly, at least here, the price difference has shrunk to around $0.10 and there is ONE station in my area (fortunately, my work are is 1/3 of the state), but I'm poor, so I'll take my $0.10!!

The only instances in which I would expect to find any variability in that are the ooooold country stations that still exist way out in the boonies down here in the SE, where you can't swipe your card at the pump and you're not even sure if the pump is functional or just a display.

 

[aczlan]

This. And I did check up on it recently. There do not appear to be any current regs (that I could find and I'm a pretty good finder) that REQUIRE ORD to be ULSD, but in most cases, it will be.

The EPA said that starting in 2014 everyone (on-road, off-road, marine and locomotive) has to be at 15ppm of sulfur. See Locomotive, marine and non-road diesel fuel standards begin at later dates. - Clean Diesel Fuel Alliance and http://www.clean-diesel.org/pdf/ulsd_nr_fact_sheet.pdf

Aaron Z

 

[Bluegill2]

This. And I did check up on it recently. There do not appear to be any current regs (that I could find and I'm a pretty good finder) that REQUIRE ORD to be ULSD, but in most cases, it will be. Sadly, at least here, the price difference has shrunk to around $0.10 and there is ONE station in my area (fortunately, my work are is 1/3 of the state), but I'm poor, so I'll take my $0.10!!

The only instances in which I would expect to find any variability in that are the ooooold country stations that still exist way out in the boonies down here in the SE, where you can't swipe your card at the pump and you're not even sure if the pump is functional or just a display.

I'm way out in the boonies, no DSL or cable. Pumps here have no place to swipe a card. Off road diesel is a big seller, probably as many tractors around here as pickups. Used to be .40 cheaper haven't checked lately.

 

[tractorshopper]

I often wonder about this. Still filling up my tractor at Love's with on-road diesel. Nobody can assure me any off-road where offered is ULSD. In fact, one place in particular has it posted that it is high sulfur.

 

[ovrszd]

I often wonder about this. Still filling up my tractor at Love's with on-road diesel. Nobody can assure me any off-road where offered is ULSD. In fact, one place in particular has it posted that it is high sulfur.

I believe in Missouri the State requires pumps be labeled as to Sulphur content.

I average 125 gallons of diesel per month. I only burn red fuel. The savings is .30-.40 per gallon. That's substantial by year's end.

I buy all my fuel thru a distributor called MFA. I think it's local to Missouri. Their stations are card use stations only. If you buy red fuel there with a Credit/Debit card the pump charges you road tax. If you buy red fuel there using their "Petro Card" you don't pay road tax. Weird huh???

 

[tractorshopper]

 

[LOOPHOLE]

Another option is to get the on-road taxes back by reporting the off-road use to the IRS and state governments using tax forms.

good luck with that one- refunds are s l o w from the Washington crowd

 

[k0ua]

Well I guess it will all be ULSD by Jan 2014.

 

[mo1]

I believe in Missouri the State requires pumps be labeled as to Sulphur content.

I average 125 gallons of diesel per month. I only burn red fuel. The savings is .30-.40 per gallon. That's substantial by year's end.

Road fuel taxes in MO on diesel are 42 cents/gallon if I remember correctly. Gasoline and alcohol is 37 cents/gallon tax. Some pumps have this prominently posted, most commonly in rural areas. In my experience, you get the "full" discount if you get your fuel through a fuel distributor. My folks use Boland Oil in east-central MO. You might get a dime a gallon off if you buy "red diesel" from a pump. That's pretty much what I've seen in a couple of different states. I bet the station owners love to make 35-some-odd cents a gallon extra profit in selling the red diesel from the pump vs. maybe 5 cents/gallon for gasoline and road diesel.

I buy all my fuel thru a distributor called MFA. I think it's local to Missouri. Their stations are card use stations only. If you buy red fuel there with a Credit/Debit card the pump charges you road tax. If you buy red fuel there using their "Petro Card" you don't pay road tax. Weird huh???

MFA is regional to Missouri and also parts of Arkansas. I used to drive by their headquarters on Stadium Boulevard right next to the US 63 entrance in Columbia whenever I went home from college. They used to have MFA-branded gas stations including one in my hometown but most of them got sold to Citgo in the mid-2000s and then got sold to somebody else (Zephyr Express?) shortly thereafter when Hugo Chavez's Petroleos de Venezuela bought out Citgo and Chavez made an idiot of himself on the world stage. Now MFA operates the card-only Petro-Card 24 stations as well as the Break Time regular gas stations common in Central Missouri. I've bought a LOT of gasoline and a fair amount of E85 (they're about the only folks that carry that 105+ octane fuel) from Break Times over the years.

EDIT: Everything now is ULSD, or is supposed to be. There used to be a "High Sulfur Diesel 500 PPM - Off Road Only" sticker on my folks' diesel barrels. A couple years ago the fuel supplier scratched them off, saying that everything was now ULSD. They haven't noticed any differences in the fuel but at best they have Tier III engines. My Dad was very particular in buying new equipment *before* the changeover.

 

[michael.white]

All off road diesel by law is dyed red. If you are using "clear" diesel, it means it is "on road" and you are therefore paying allthe taxes on it. Get caught with "Red" in a highway diesel and you are in deep $$$$$$$ as that is tax avoidance

Biggest issue with "old" fuel is in cold areas where you don't want tohave "summer" diesel in your tank in the winter has it won't have ay cold flow improvers in it.

You mean "evasion", not "avoidance". Avoidance is arranging things to legally avoid a tax, e.g. putting taxable income into an IRA or buying offroad diesel for offroad equipment. Evasion is not paying a tax that is owed, e.g. not reporting taxable income or putting red dye diesel in your daily driver.

I know it's a nit, but I get annoyed by the occasional story demonizing people or businesses avoiding a tax when no law is being broken.