Rear Lift Questions

GRUMPA · Feb 12, 2005

I'm currently TRYING to educate myself on the hydraulics on my beast (TS 354C) and have a couple of questions about it. What does the lifting, the 2 lift arms and/or the upper link connector? What would be the opinions on using something like this with it? I know mine doesn't have rear remotes (yet), but I'm getting a PHD but I want some down force because my ground is to say the least like a rock. So I need to put a hydraulic piston on for it. I think they're called lower link arms not sure but the ends of them look as if they're welded on and the metal they are made out of are very soft, are their any replacements that are made better for these? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Wayne_Freeman · Feb 12, 2005

The two lift arms do all the lifting. On a PHD simply adding some static weight on the digger is usually sufficient. Too much down force will tend to shear or break something. I don't know how much rock you are talking about but in some extreme applications a PHD may not do the job. The scraper would work for you as long as you have sufficient power to use it. I would love to have one but the cost would probably scare me off?

greg_g · Feb 12, 2005

( What does the lifting )

The upper device to which you refer is the toplink. Both the toplink and the lower arms are simple levers on end pivots. The actual lifting force comes from the hydraulic arms located right behind the seat. They apply "up" force only, and transfer this lift to the lower arms by means of the two vertical lift links. "Down" force is supplied by gravity.

I don't see any problem using the 4 foot scraper with your 354, but don't understand the relationship with a PHD. Or did you just run two different subjects together in the same sentence? Most folks use an 8 foot 2x4 as a PHD downforce lever. Of course, this requires the services of a helper - and a pocket full of shear bolts.

//greg//

jonrjen · Feb 12, 2005

I wouldn't worry too much about needing down force. Once you break ground the auger will usually eat/drill down as it is designed to do. There will be a few times that a small amount of pressure will help, as someone else pointed out the use of a second person and a bar for leverage will get r done.
There is a great article in this months Progressive Farmer on PHD and how to use them. They also recommend the use of a second person to assist in getting the hole started where you want it and keeping it nice and straight.

GRUMPA · Feb 12, 2005

Well let me rephrase this a bit. I realize that down pressure is gravity and in my particular circumstances I have to be able to do all work solo. Wife has an artificial hip and is 57yrs old and just cant muster the effort to help me with much. Up at our ranch their isn't anyone to help me with projects at all, it's very remote. With the remote hydraulics I want to add to the beast I was more or less wondering since the toplink looks as if its a hydraulic piston and if I added a hydraulic top link to it would I just be pushing the toplink up rather than pushing lets say the box-blade down. And that earth mover gizmo I was planning on using the 5' model just taking shallow cuts with it but was sceptical about the welds on the lower arms, the welds look like a weak link to me.

bluechip · Feb 12, 2005

The piston in the lift box is not attached to the lift arms, it simply pushes against them. (the piston has a tapered socket that a rod attaching to a lever that rotates the lift arm shaft which in turn lifts the lift arms, which as greg said are under the seat...whew!). So there is no way to use hydraulid down force on the TPH. There have only been a few tractors designed with hydraulic down force, and some of them broke the tractor chassis when people used them to lift the rear of the tractor off the ground. Weight on the top of the PHD might help some?

greg_g · Feb 12, 2005

( the toplink looks as if its a hydraulic piston )
You must be talking about that rubber seal on the tractor end of the toplink bracket. If so, that's part of your draft control. When used in conjunction with one of the lift levers to the right of the seat, it automatically applies LIFT - if too much downward motion of the toplink is detected. That's the opposite of what you're looking for. A HTL won't help either. All the toplink does - whether manual or hydraulic - is regulate the angle of attack of whatever implement is attached.

If you're considering that 5' scraper, you might want to take a 2nd look at the recommended horsepower required.

Scozz · Feb 12, 2005

Grumpa I've never had any trouble operating my PHD alone. My land here in NY is clay and rock and rock and rock! (I had to blast 9' deep to build my home). I usually start my hole with a pick axe and then begin the auger. I usually stand next to the tractor operating the lift controls, pushing down on the PHD as required.
Digging in rocky soil requires lifting the auger frequently to discharge the rocks. I've probaly done 100 holes or so alone in the last couple years ... take it slow and be careful .. It'll get the job done ... Scozz

CSH · Feb 13, 2005

I'll second the technique used by Scozz. My land has a hard clay layer under the topsoil, and the PHD makes no progress, even when using a long lever for downforce. After a few swings with a pick to get the auger started in the hard layer and all is well. A PHD is dangerous to operate when 2 people are working together, and even more so when alone. My wife doesn't know anything about tractors, but she can sit in the seat and press the clutch pedal when the auger needs to be stopped. That's an invaluable service should one become entangled in the driveline.

dexterbeef · Feb 21, 2005

> but don't understand the relationship with a PHD. Or did >you just run two different subjects together in the same >sentence? Most folks use an 8 foot 2x4 as a PHD downforce >lever.

Agreed. I have done this many, many times, but it does need 2 people for safe operation! When on my own, I tend to dig a small hole, 6-12" square and about a spades depth, to act as a starter hole for the auger and quite often this will be enough to allow the auger to "bite" and start working.