Realoding fine tunning

[xlr82v2]

For my Winchester 70 I developed a load with reasonable accuracy using IMR4350 and HNDY BTSPS 140 grains. Since I saw a lot of positive feedback on HNDY SST I got a box of 130 grain bullets and I can't get it to group decently. This is how I worked it:

- 4 groups of rounds, 9 rounds each
- groups were 56, 57, 58 and 59 grains of IMR 4350
- shot from rifle shooting rest on a bench 100 yards
- 3 shots 56, 3 shots 57, 3 shots 58 and 3 shots 59 grains
- repeated 3 times and compared results for each weight group
- holes were in 2" circle at the best, 3" circle in the worst case

For the BTSP I used same process and from the same distance and the same shooting rest I get 1/2" groups.

Please, advice, since I lack experience in reloading, where should i go from here? Hornady max load is 60 grains for the bullet, but I don't think maxing it out would make difference. I was thinking about getting a batch of new brass and trying it again, but as I said, I don't have enough experience to decide which way to experiment. What is the most influential component? Powder if the bullet is given?

Czech,

I sure didn't remember reading that when I posted... so obviously it looks like you've got that under control OK, now on to the fun stuff!

Quick questions: are you using new brass, or fired brass? And, are you full length sizing or neck sizing only?

Also, have you tried any other powders besides IMR4350? H4831SC might also be a good candidate with this bullet. Also, what primers are you using?

I'd try some different powders first before I gave up on this bullet. Right now, it looks like you've just got a combination that your rifle just doesn't like.

You might also try varying the seating depth of your bullets. Start with the bullets .040" off the lands (assuming that you can reach them, don't know what kind of throat your barrel has...) and work closer in .005 increments until you're touching the lands. All of this with the powder charge that gave your best results initially. But first, I think I'd try a different powder, you should be able to get better results than 3 inch groups.

 

[RobertN]

What is the twist on your rifling? That alone can realy affect what bullet weight you use. Your barrel may have too fast or too slow a twist for the bullet you are trying to use.

Also, I would highly recomend Ken Waters "Pet Loads". He goes in to a lot of detail on fine tuning, and picking bullet weights. His material is dated; he does not have the new short magnums. But, it is a great reference.

 

[foggy1111]

At one time I reloaded allot of rounds using 4350 powder (I think I used it for a 243 I shot allot at the time). Later I tried the 4350 on several other guns and always found it was not the best in the accuracy department. I think I still have some of that powder....but have not loaded any for years.

In the cartridge size your talking.....Hodgedon 4831 sc (short cut) almost always proves to be a good powder and is one I will definately try first. Same goes for bullets....if the gun wont shoot Nozler ballistic tips.....it likely wont shoot others well either. So I will oftentimes check a poorly performing gun with ballistic tips to see if it will group.

I always keep a box of factory ammo too. I use it for a "bogey" to improve over.

Bullets and seating them so they are concentric with the brass and at a "proper" seating depth will most often solve accuracy issues. FAR more often than changeing powders or tweaking powder charges a little.

One of the best investments for accuracy (after the normal tools are bought) is a bullet seating depth gauge (Was Stoney Point now is Hornady Lock and Load). Sometimes finding the correct seating depth can shrink groups in half. Next thing is a concentricity gauge. But you also can roll 'em on a flat surface (glass works) and watch carefully for bullet runnout conditions. Bad runout of your rounds will make erratic accuracy and stem from bad brass or a bad die set up. While some think not....you can see a bad runnout condtion of say .oo5 or more with a trained eye. Learning how to size fired brass to properly fit the chamber is fundemental to good accuracy.

Read, re-read and understand the very imprortant fundementals of the loading process as found in the front of the Hornady manual. Employing this knowledge and tecniques will provide the accuacy you are looking for.

I'm willing to bet that I can take those same components your using and using good prepeared brass and employing the tips above can get that gun to group under an inch.

 

[foggy1111]

OH...and check the crown of that barrel. Sometimes a knick or damage to the crown can be the culprit. (use a magnifying glass and look closely)

 

[foggy1111]

One other issue.....while I'm into it. I once had a couple of boxes of 190 grain spire point boat tails intended for use with a 300 win mag. I was going on my first elk hunt.....and I really liked the ballistics of these bullets for this gun at the time.

I tried and tried to get the gun to shoot those bullets....and....at the time these were premium bullets. No dice. The gun would not group regardless of what I tried. So.....I put in the good ole Remington 180 grain bullets and killed my first elk with em.

The best bullets in the world aint worth two hoots in a tin can if they arent gonna shoot accurately in YOUR gun.

I still got those bad bullets....and I bet they are still bad in anybodys gun. Just a bad design or lot?? ....who knows? I never have had much luck with big boattails for accuarcy. but no confidence in what your shooting is a bad deal.

 

[EddieWalker]

I read everyones replies and was wondering about your shooting. What can you do with your good load? What are your best groups?

When shooting, are you shooting with a hot barrel? or are you waiting between shots for it to cool off?

I spent a considerable amount of time working on a load for my .30-06 one year with a few friends whe were into reloading. One shoots, and wins, compititions. He's about as **** as they come in his shooting.

When I shoot, I wait five minutes between shots. I shot, the watch the clock to shoot again. When I do this, I can shoot groups under an inch at 100 yards. I've done five shot groups at half an inch, but only a few times. That's really tough.

I don't go to the extreme of cleaning the barrel after every shot, or every ten to twenty shots, but know guys who do. They want the barrel to be the same for every shot, so running a rag through the barrel is one of the ways they do this.

After going through hundreds of dollars, an untold number of hours, I found that Federal Premium ammo will consistantly group under an inch in my rifle. I bought my wife a similar rifle in the same caliber for her birthday a few years ago and she shot an even tighter group then I did with the exact same ammo.

The reason that I tried the Federal ammo after going through all that effort to find the best load for my rifle is that it didn't do what I wanted on big game. On a target, it was great, but on deer and caribou, it just zipped right through them. Small entry hole, small exit hole. I then focussed on bullets that do allot of damage and working on loads with them that shot well. While researching bullets, I read about Federal Premium ammo.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[archerm3]

For my Winchester 70 I developed a load with reasonable accuracy using IMR4350 and HNDY BTSPS 140 grains. Since I saw a lot of positive feedback on HNDY SST I got a box of 130 grain bullets and I can't get it to group decently. This is how I worked it:

- 4 groups of rounds, 9 rounds each
- groups were 56, 57, 58 and 59 grains of IMR 4350
- shot from rifle shooting rest on a bench 100 yards
- 3 shots 56, 3 shots 57, 3 shots 58 and 3 shots 59 grains
- repeated 3 times and compared results for each weight group
- holes were in 2" circle at the best, 3" circle in the worst case

For the BTSP I used same process and from the same distance and the same shooting rest I get 1/2" groups.

Please, advice, since I lack experience in reloading, where should i go from here? Hornady max load is 60 grains for the bullet, but I don't think maxing it out would make difference. I was thinking about getting a batch of new brass and trying it again, but as I said, I don't have enough experience to decide which way to experiment. What is the most influential component? Powder if the bullet is given?

Yeah, I just wonder why if the BTSPS is shooting 1/2" groups you would even consider trying anything else.

 

[whistlepig]

Powder types are easily researched by caliber and barrel length. Loading manuals narrow this down pretty well. It only takes a couple tries to go wrong on powder. The biggest variable is the bullet. Some guns shoot one brand of bullet much better than others. Then one has to consider down range performance. One does not necessarily come with the other. The best shooting bullet I have ever used is Seirra. Nosler ballistic tips shoot almost as well but give much better down range performance.

 

[czechsonofagun]

My goal for this rifle is to have reliable scale of ammo - 130, 140 and 150 grains. I like Hornady bullets, but Hornady does not make ammo for 270 WSM.
That's why I started to think about reloading. 270 WSM is hard to find, usually the store has only one or two brands and the price is high.

Eddie, I remember your point from some time ago - you certainly got me thinking and for 30-06 I proly wouldn't bother to start with reloading. But when I get a rifle in that caliber, I will definitely reload for it. I enjoy the work and it allows me to shoot more than I ever did.

I bought RL19 and H 4831 and will give it another try.

 

[toddbailey]

My goal for this rifle is to have reliable scale of ammo - 130, 140 and 150 grains. I like Hornady bullets, but Hornady does not make ammo for 270 WSM.
That's why I started to think about reloading. 270 WSM is hard to find, usually the store has only one or two brands and the price is high.

Eddie, I remember your point from some time ago - you certainly got me thinking and for 30-06 I proly wouldn't bother to start with reloading. But when I get a rifle in that caliber, I will definitely reload for it. I enjoy the work and it allows me to shoot more than I ever did.

I bought RL19 and H 4831 and will give it another try.

that is the main reason i started reloading also couldn't find the ammo i wanted when i needed it and at the time i shot a fairly common caliber (7mm rem. mag.) it sure is nice to shoot the bullets you like and not have to settle for what the gun store or wal-mart has in stock this week! and it is a very relaxing/rewarding hobby! now i will set at the bench and load 50 or 222 rem. bullets for a match this weekend!