R4041 Loader Issue LB4101

[Guesseral]

I watched your video and mine is the same. I agree with Brian, but I also think a lot of that can be adjusted out Not sure for sure but I am going to try on mine, I just don't like the cold any longer! I think if the linkage (under the boot at the joystick) and the cable are lubed up and the operation is smoother the dual operation will be better. I am not positive and I have been wrong before well ok I was right once!

 

[TSO]

This is 100% combination operator and loader joystick. These joysticks are not really intended to be used as a multifunction (same time) setup IMO. Your video shows this as in sometimes it works and others not. That is the operater, but not that it is the operater's fault really. The valves just are not intended to be used simutainiusly is all.

One of the reasons that I think that it's funny when people want a true 3rd function on these tractors vs just a diverter. They think that they want to work 3 functions at the same time when in reality it is about all you can do to get 2 to work together.

On the positive side, there isn't anything wrong with the tractors. :thumbsup:

While I'm not perfect, and I'm not adverse to placing blame on myself if/when warranted.... I'm pretty good with a loader. The very fact that other tractor brands don't have this issue (that I've experienced anyhow) shows that either something is wrong, OR that the design of the system, or joystick, is flawed. It should not be that difficult to find the spot.

I'm still wondering if it's only some, or all, of us experiencing this.

In the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal... Until you're trying to be really precise with forks.

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[Hansen Equipment Inc]

OK. I'm not experiencing the "limp bucket" problem LOL... But I'm wondering how many other owners notice the issues with dual-action loader movements? Hansen, if u get a chance, can you play with the ones on your lot and see if they do it?

Like I said, I can lift the arms AND curl at the same time, and I can lower the arms AND drop the bucket simultaneously... Although it's sometimes difficult to find just the right spot.
I can't recall if I've ever been able to lift the arms AND drop the bucket simultaneously (or drop & curl)...

And like I said, my Kioti didn't have the issue, neither does my buddy's (2) Kubota's. That's why I feel it's either a problem with my tractor, or a problem with the design.

Maybe it's just the joystick itself? Is there a way for me to check if the pressure is up to spec, or does the dealer need to? I'm not really concerned with increasing the pressure to gain more strength, I'm happy with that as it is. Just trying to troubleshoot. Hey, maybe the limp bucket is caused by an un-full oil reservoir, or maybe the reservoir is too small for this loader?

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I just checked a couple of machines in the yard. I can do two functions at once but I do notice a spot that the lever feels as it lets one spool to be favored over the other one. I beleive it is the way the handle is supported with the fixed ball and the two cables also support the cable with spring tension. But it is not very noticeable or as bad as your machine. I would make sure your handle is centered by pushing the lever lock in. The lock should go in with out moving the handle. If not the handle is not adjusted correctly. Also make sure the fixed ball is tight in the block. Do you have any play in the cables? To check the pressure you need a gauge with a min pressure of 3000 lbs and a matched coupler to plug into the loader lift hose. Hope that helps

 

[MtnViewRanch]

While I'm not perfect, and I'm not adverse to placing blame on myself if/when warranted.... I'm pretty good with a loader. The very fact that other tractor brands don't have this issue (that I've experienced anyhow) shows that either something is wrong, OR that the design of the system, or joystick, is flawed. It should not be that difficult to find the spot.

I'm still wondering if it's only some, or all, of us experiencing this.



In the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal... Until you're trying to be really precise with forks.

Sent from my Motorola Photon using TractorByNet for Android

I believe that the mechanism is the main culprit. I know that with both of my Mahindras that KMW the manufacturer of most of Mahindra's loaders says that the valves are not multifunctional. On my 7520 it operates pretty much as your video and yet with my 3215 it works fairly well. Yet niether are even close to the quality of our 580 Case TLB.

It is what it is, and unless someone wants to spend some $$$$, I doubt that it is going to get much better. We usually get what we pay for.

 

[boomer632]

Well back to the bucket sway at full dump..I went out today and tried to duplicate the issue and could not. It worked as it should with no sway. Could this be because the hyd oil was cold? When I noticed the issue the other day I had been using the tractor for over an hour and the hyd oil was up to operating temp. Any thoughts? I also tried several dual function operations that are being discussed here too. I was able to do several but as expected.. the movement of bucket and arms was considerably slower. I think its normal when using two circuits at same time that both will get reduced flow as opposed to using normal single circuit operation.

 

[Gary Fowler]

My P 7010 does this also and is quite a delay when engine is idling, so I don't think there is a problem with linkage just oil flow as Hansen Equipment explained.

Re-thinking this, I don't think mine did this when new either. Have to remember to check for slack when I roll it down and see if it is in the pins or cylinder. It could be a loose nut inside the cylinders causing it or the pins may be worn, but mine only has 79 hours on it and it has always been well greased, so it should not be worn.
If the cylinder moves back and forth then it has some slack internally and could be the nut has backed off that holds the piston on the rod.

 

[Bladehauler]

Re-thinking this, I don't think mine did this when new either. Have to remember to check for slack when I roll it down and see if it is in the pins or cylinder. It could be a loose nut inside the cylinders causing it or the pins may be worn, but mine only has 79 hours on it and it has always been well greased, so it should not be worn.
If the cylinder moves back and forth then it has some slack internally and could be the nut has backed off that holds the piston on the rod.

Gary , would it have that slack with 1 cylinder piston nut backed off ? I would have thought the other cylinder would have kept it from moving so much.I think mine is as Hansen Equip descibed, because mine seems to do it more with the heavy grapple on than with an empty bucket, but it does do it with both.

 

[Short Game]

Hi everyone. I too experience exactly the same things. Thanks, now I understand how it happens.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I just checked mine and I think the problem is in the linkage for the self-leveling action. I can let my bucket hang down and move it back and forth. There is about 1/8" of slack in the hole and appears that it was cut too big for the pin. I will go out an take a photo of the area for you guys to check yours.
You can see the slight gap at the top in the grease mark and it is about like that all the way around which while not being a lot of difference, it allows the bucket to move a minimum of 2-3" back and forth by hand at the cutting blade level

 

[Gary Fowler]

I just checked mine and I think the problem is in the linkage for the self-leveling action. I can let my bucket hang down and move it back and forth. There is about 1/8" of slack in the hole and appears that it was cut too big for the pin. I will go out an take a photo of the area for you guys to check yours.
You can see the slight gap at the top in the grease mark and it is about like that all the way around which while not being a lot of difference, it allows the bucket to move a minimum of 2-3" back and forth by hand at the cutting blade level

Any one else have slack around this bracket. While it isn't a lot of slack, it does allow quite a bit of movement in the bucket

 

[Bladehauler]

Be home tomorrow and I'll check mine

 

[Gary Fowler]

Drop the front of the blade till bucket is in vertical position and see if you can move the bucket back and forth any. Mine doesn't have any slack in the cylinders, it is all in those pin and bracket connections.

 

[Bladehauler]

Drop the front of the blade till bucket is in vertical position and see if you can move the bucket back and forth any. Mine doesn't have any slack in the cylinders, it is all in those pin and bracket connections.

I checked mine tonight and all the slop is in the pins,the cylinders dont move, but theres slop on both ends and the pins in the linkage and bucket.Does anyone know if the pin locknuts can be tightened to take out some slop ?

I'll take most of the blame, I dont grease it as often as I should.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I checked mine tonight and all the slop is in the pins,the cylinders dont move, but theres slop on both ends and the pins in the linkage and bucket.Does anyone know if the pin locknuts can be tightened to take out some slop ?

I'll take most of the blame, I dont grease it as often as I should.

That's the way mine is and I grease the heck out of it. Maybe it is cheap pins or the grease is not staying in the pin area. I know everytime I grease mine, I am wiping grease off the hood for a few hours as it squirts out of the pin area. My tractor has less than 80 hours on it so pin wear should be minimal and the self leveling brackets seem to have a lot of slop also.

 

[TSO]

I have not looked at the pins yet (to check for slop) ... but I was moving snow the other day with mine, and noticed that when I went to "full-dump" and tried to "shake" out the leftovers in the bucket, mine would go limp for a short time also. Sounds like this is another design flaw with these loaders. I know, I know... it's designed to be like that, it isn't meant to be smooth, it's only supposed to do THIS or THAT... again, it seems like an LS problem, because the other tractor brands (new CUT's) don't have these issues with the loader.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Anyone have a LS dealer close by that they could discuss this obvious problem with. Mine is 70 miles away. It sounds like and issue with all loaders on all of these tractors.

 

[GManBart]

Mine hasn't done this at all. I'm only at 55hrs, but I've spent most of that using the loader.

 

[rwork]

I really haven't noticed this on mine, either. I'll check it out this weekend, though.

 

[Short Game]

My loader gripes probably became legendary here when I found I couldn't roll the bucket back with the strength I was used to with my old CubCadet. That, and it wouldn't even reach my deck with a keg of beer in the bucket, as I had grown accustomed to doing with my little old Cub. LS and my LS dealer upgraded me to the 2011 and up larger bucket cylinders, though improved, it still wasn't the power I was used to. I just bought an aftermarket quick attach for the used Cub I just got. I got it on there and thought that with the sun shining here for a change, I'll get some pictures of the two tractors with their loaders set up for comparison. The LS 4100 loader is set well forward, as well as higher from the ground. It is just plain smaller.

It is a bit hard in the photo to see the why the roll-back strength is different, but it is mostly in the spacing of the pins on the quick attach (I should have gotten a closeup). As for height and reach, it is easy to see the difference in the length of the booms. The Cub is reaching 13 inches higher than the LS, and the LS is on higher ground than the Cub.

Of the two tractors, the LS kicks serious butt for comfort and PTO power. But now I have a loader that will do more. The weakness of having the Cub's bigger loader is in the Cub itself. So, with the Cub 7***s, Case IH 1140s, and Mahindra 28, 30, & 3215s (all the same Mitsubishi built machines), the front axle is not strong enough to carry the loads its loader can lift. I repeatedly blew the front wheel bearings out of my old one. I will be very careful about how much I weight I try lifting with it now.


BTW, the cub never has that issue of the bucket having that gap in power that this thread started with.

 

[MrChris]

That's interesting. Just some clarification. The Mahindra 2615, 2816 are the same as the Cub 723* series tractors. Is the Cub loader made by KMW out of Kansas? Looks like the Cub 727* series matches the Mahindra 3015. The 3015 has a larger turbo engine and a different loader. It's rated to lift more but has a slightly lower reach. The Mahindra 2815/3215 and 3316 have some differences, somewhat upgrades if you like since they are newer designs. More spacious operator platform, fuel tank under hood, different front and rear axles, different HST trans and loader is again different with even higher lift capacity and even slightly lower reach than the 3015. I know the loader buckets on the 2615/2816 though the same width as the 2815/3015/3215 have less depth and thus less volume capacity, maybe in an effort to reduce the weight on the front axle, that's why I was curious as to who manufactured the Cub loader.