Quoting a job?

[City Farmer]

Hi all,
I have been asked to quote some dozer and backhoe work for a couple coworkers. These are not good friends or family but they are nice people. Not that I really wanted to take these jobs on but are my quotes out of line? These people thought I was crazy when I gave them the quote.

Job #1) 15min drive. Old barn 40ft x70ft with 2-3 inches of busted up concrete floor and a 2ft. footing around the perimeter. He wants me to tear out all the concrete and bury everything, then top with millings or crusher run that he would pay for.
Finished size of RV pad is approximately 50ft. x100ft. I quoted $3200 and thought it was cheap but he said no way.

Job #2) 35min drive one way. Fix/level/widen 150 driveway and level a 100ft. x200ft. area for an RV and widen/fix ruts on about 3/4 mile of trails. He wanted 2 quotes, one for the RV pad and one for the trails. I said $2000 for everything or $1000 each.

This guy told me $600 for the RV pad and $500 for the trails. I said no way and he got upset. He thinks he is doing me a favor at $600. I told him to rent a machine, do it himself and left.

I think I am finished quoting Work.

 

[CobyRupert]

You're under no obligation.

This is how all transactions (and the assignment of "a value" works): Buyer thinks its worth some dollar amount. Seller thinks its worth some dollar amount. If the 2 agree, a transaction occurs.

There is no absolute value!! No one true answer to "what is x worth?

Just because somebody else will do it for another price, or they want you to do it for some other price, that's the value to them. Has absolutely nothing to do with the value to you. ...and it sounds like your coworkers should get a sampling on what other people (equipment operators) think their time is worth.

 

[MechE1]

They are unrealistic in their assumptions on their part. The minimum cost to have 1 piece equipment delivered from a rental is what $90 minimum? At 35 miles I'm guessing it's $130-150. Sound like you were delivering 2 pieces of equipment. Plus the time and fuel for the actual work and you'll barely cover the costs of fuel (at the desired $600 price). Personally, I think you were a bit low on the quote. With the barn, you have no idea what you would run into on the digging and burial. Could turn into a real nightmare OR it could have been easy. My experience. Never easy. 2 ft of footing wide but how thick? Likely all kinds of metal embedded in that footing too is my guess.

 

[EddieWalker]

Your quotes seem kind of low in my opinion. Busting out concrete is tough on equipment. I don't do heavy equipment type of jobs, but I do write up bids for home remodeling jobs all the time, and after figuring out how long a job will take, what materials will cost, I then add in the pain factor to the bid. To me, pain is anything that I do not want to do, or what I expect to deal with that I wont like doing. I've doubled my labor on the pain factor a lot of the time, and when I did those jobs, wish that I had charged even more!!!

A few things that I have learned. Never work for free, or at a discount. Those are the people who will demand the most, complain the most and never be happy. Never take on a job that they try to get you to lower your price. They will always be unhappy, and never stop trying to low ball you, or get you to do more work for nothing since you are already there. Never let a client tell you what the job is worth, or how quickly you can do it. Never hesitate to refuse to give a total cost of a job with unknowns in the job. Go hourly, and tell them what the worse case scenario is. If they accept, and you run into issues, you are paid for your time, if you don't, your client will be happy to pay you for less time.

How big is your dozer? Mine is a Case 1550 that weighs 40,000 pounds. It's $500 each way to hire it to be moved to a location. I've only done this once when I wanted the dealer to fix a hydraulic issue. They refused to pick it up since it's so old, and they didn't fix it, but still charged me for their time to look at it and tell me that I needed to buy a new hydraulic pump for $25,000, which I refused and ended up doing the repair myself. Cost of moving equipment is a great way to get people to change their mind about getting me to to work on their place. I even had a friend ask me to use my dozer to pull her sons truck out of the mud. People are clueless!!!

 

[City Farmer]

Thanks everyone for the replies and advice. The footings are 100yrs old, 5 inch thick mortared field stone, no rebar, crumble and wiggle around when kicked with a boot.

Its a small dozer, Case 350B and weighs just under 10k lbs. with an 8 blade. It would致e been nice to make a few dollars to re-coup some of the money I put into the track.

 

[Milo]

If they think it's too much give them a flat amount to transport your dozer to and from then an hourly fee covering the dozer and you (or the operator).

 

[downsizingnow48]

I am long out of the business but everything Eddie said rings absolutely true. I used also to add in the a$$hole fee, extra money for dealing with difficult clients. I think you are fortunate to not get those jobs.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I will pile on with the Eddie comments. I think your quotes are on the low side as well. People have no idea what its costs to run equipment. Let them price out a contractor and see what the jobs really cost when there isn't insurance and profit to cover.

 

[thepumpguysc]

OK, so that's outta the way.. BUT>> what are you gonna say when they COME BACK & say.. ok, go ahead & do it.. AFTER they priced out other operators..
Personally, I wouldn't take the job after they did that.. OR.. find out what "the others" were going to charge & go 100.00 less.. lol

 

[Industrial Toys]

Do what contractors do. Bid low, leaving out critical stuff that they don't catch and then nail them for EXTRAS. Getting your money may be another story.

I don't get it. People don't want to pay for real iron but will pay a (wannabe contractor) guy with a garden tractor TLB a fortune for the time it takes him.

 

[Gary Fowler]

This guy told me $600 for the RV pad and $500 for the trails. I said no way and he got upset. He thinks he is doing me a favor at $600. I told him to rent a machine, do it himself and left.

That is the reason when I am asked to do some small job for a neighbor, I do it for free or not at all. No one is happy with even a minimal charge for work done. Most don't realize the cost of equipment nor repairs to said equipment and only look at it as a cost per hour for the operator. I think the tightwads really think that since your equipment is just setting unused, it only cost you time and fuel (and most don't even want to pay the fuel cost)for work to be done.

Best is for them to have to rent the equipment themselves to gain appreciation for the real cost of work.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Some people just really do try and get stuff cheap, regardless of ethics. Some people only think that what they do is worth anything. And yet others don't have a clue what stuff costs, sometimes just because they are old and out of touch. Yet they paid for a New Cadillac, put gas in it regularly and go on a cruise, so maybe they are just playing a game too.

I too, never lend stuff, prefer to do the little jobs for free and if offered money for "fuel" accept it gratefully under most circumstances.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

At those quotes, I would like to have you come out here and do some work! I think those jobs were bid way low! Take it as a blessing that they didn't take you up on them.

 

[Barnbuilder]

Sometimes you're better off to stay home and work for free.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Some people just really do try and get stuff cheap, regardless of ethics. Some people only think that what they do is worth anything. And yet others don't have a clue what stuff costs, sometimes just because they are old and out of touch. Yet they paid for a New Cadillac, put gas in it regularly and go on a cruise, so maybe they are just playing a game too.

I too, never lend stuff, prefer to do the little jobs for free and if offered money for "fuel" accept it gratefully under most circumstances.

I have a brother in law like that, he used to embarrass me with wanting something for less every time he bought something (that is until I quit going out with him). No matter the price, he wanted a discount and it wasn't because he lacked funds, he has way more money than he will ever spend, but he seriously wants everything for nothing.

 

[mark02tj]

That is the reason when I am asked to do some small job for a neighbor, I do it for free or not at all. No one is happy with even a minimal charge for work done. Most don't realize the cost of equipment nor repairs to said equipment and only look at it as a cost per hour for the operator. I think the tightwads really think that since your equipment is just setting unused, it only cost you time and fuel (and most don't even want to pay the fuel cost)for work to be done.

And, it's not just "manual labor jobs" where this comes into play. I am a CPA and used to do taxes for a living. Friends and neighbors would want a "deal" on doing their tax returns. Even doing them for half of what I normally would have charged got them upset. I had one guy that just wanted me to "review" his return after he prepped it. I told him that it would take me as long to review it for completeness and accuracy as it would to just do it from scratch. He didn't like that either. I ended up changing the focus of my practice from taxes to consulting and then could use the excuse that I "wasn't current on the new laws any more" so I didn't have to work for friends.

It always amazes me to have someone ask you to do for free what you do for your work every day. Do you work for free at your job???

Back to the OP - think twice about taking the jobs after they've priced them from someone else!

 

[kevin37b]

How do you think they paid for those RV"S ?

 

[Oldoak]

City Farmer, I think you bids are very reasonable and are at the low end of the scale. I would not make any other counter offers. With those ridiculously low offerings from your co-workers wanted to pay, I think they were trying to take advantage of you. I think if they ever asked for quotes from full time professional contractors, they would come running back to you.

However, comparing rates over wide spread areas and certainly many states apart doesn't really present a good example of what YOU should charge.

 

[D2Cat]

If they came back to me asking me to do the same jobs, I'd tell them: "No, the price of fuel has gone up and after you felt my price was too high I got to checking, and I'm actually low for the equipment cost. I'll pass. Thanks though."'

 

[CobyRupert]

You could use a technique (that I hate) that I hear advertised all the time.
Basically a: We try to charge you as much as we can, but if you bring us our competitors ad (or quote) for less, "We'll match any price" , basically: we will undercut them (if we have to).

Tell your "friends"/coworkers the same: "Yeah, get a couple (legitimate) quotes, I do it for you for 10% less good buddy!