Quick Attach Engagement question

[TWD]

I've had to cut and weld my torque tube a couple times, and I'm thinking my QA is still slightly out of alignment due to engagement I see and before I tweak something again I'm looking for info to make adjustments again, if possible.

I've attached an image with a line I put on it which is the edge of engagement with my bucket.

What's the measurement of engagement you are seeing on yours?


I am hoping people can share their measurement and maybe even a pic or two.

 

[rScotty]

Well, too much snow here to take pictures of mine, and hard to comment when just seeing one side of yours. But I'll give it a try. I know I've been concerned about exactly the same thing. Most recently when I loaded out my rock bucket and when I got it back it just did not fit the same as it used to.

What I am seeing on your photo is a continuous line from one end of the right hand QA top piece to the other. That's good; it means you are getting contact for the whole length.
And the contact line itself looks to be worn to about the same depth along its length. It's not horribly deeply worn at one and and nothing at the other.
So at least on that right side of the SSQA you have a full and even contact line within the boundaries of the upper contact area - that's all good. You have good support there for the SSQA

This is a good time to take a picture of the left hand side too. If the left hand side is as good, I'd say you have a pretty strong and even connection to the bucket. Of course I know you are concerned about the line not being parallel to the edge of the V support of the SSQA. But that is less important than having full engagement. So I woud check that other side before we look to see if the bucket or the SSQS are twisted.

I say that because it may well be that the bucket is not only well supported but also level with the ground. In that case what you are seeing could simply be that the welding of the SSQA V section and the receiver for the SSQA on the bucket were not held perfectly parallel when they were originally manufactured. That would be very possible - almost impossible to fix, and wouldn't need fixing anyway since it wouldn't hurt a thing in use.

So what we don't know are two things: Is the bucket itself parallel to the ground? And are all 4 of the V engagement areas on the bucket and SSQA adapter welded on xactly parallel and perpendicular? The bucket being level with the ground is easy to check, and that's good since it is most important. So do that first.

Checking the bucket parallel to the ground isn't hard. You may already know. And if it passes that test you are good regardless of those wear lines not be parallel to the edges. So find yourself a dead level area as long as the tractor with bucket - and don't use a paved road with a crown. Park there & lower the bucket until it some part of the lip just touches the ground. Maybe let it down a little more to take up some of the slop in the pins...and then get off and have a look at how parallel the bucket edge is to the ground along the length of the cutting edge of the bucket.

I admit I haven't checked mine so rigorously, but I do keep an eye on it. Most of us probably do. And it wouldn't surprise me to find that most tractors are at least an inch out of whack or more - though I haven't heard of anyone actually checking enough FELs to have a meaningful opinion. About all we can say is it ought to be as even as possible.
Let us know what you find.
rScotty

 

[TWD]

Thanks @rScotty for the detailed reply. The visible line is a score mark I made to highlight current position, as you can tell it's a bit nasty with grinding dust right now I'll check if it's level, but this is the Kubota Bucket and so far their attachments have been much better in terms of quality control and being even on all points vs. aftermarket, but that may not be universally true

Backstory on this... I was unloading a 1.5 ton pallet of feed and was about 6" off the ground, perfectly level when the fork attachment came disconnected from one side and put all the weight on one and tweaked the tube so bad when I cut it one side was behind the other... some cutting and bending and welding and it's even again. But it's made me examine the engagement to be sure that's not part of the problem. I do have a couple other pics of the QA frame the tube goes through, and it's actually bent inward (to center of tractor) from each side maybe 1\8", enough I can see it but in a picture it's challenging, I'll get those posted.


It's looking like maybe one of the QA Springs may be weak? (or both) and allowed movement due to leverage from the weight on the forks and the fork attachment being low quality as that connection point is slightly bent too.

 

[rScotty]

Well, what a shame! It's too bad that is a score mark you put there rather than a wear mark made by the bucket SSQA receiver. That does makes my whole argument much less interesting and rather irrelevant.

The back story makes sense now.

I wrote so much detail because I've seen that mark before. On the FEL portion of the SSQA on our M59, I have a similar mark that is definitely a wear mark put there by the bucket attachment. And just like yours, ours shows that line being at an angle.....not being parallel to anything else.

Our various buckets are level and all are good, so I know that it doesn't have a problem. But it still doesn't make me happy that the bucket I loaned out came back fitting differently. It was used on a skidloader with a hydraulic SSQA locker and that might have been it.

Our SSQA has let loose a few time during hook-up when swapping implements - but only once because I didn't get the pins down good, and then it didn't have a load on it so no damage. But it did convince me of the need to keep those springs clean and that area well greased. Was surprised to see that Kubota put zerks there just for that.

The SSQA is a great advantage - though it may not be the best of all systems. I like the European system and haven't studied the JD.
rScotty

 

[TWD]

Good to know that angle isn't unique to my m59.

I'll clean up the grinding dust and metal shavings and take another pic, you can see a pretty good spot where the paint is gone from engagement. I do think my grapple engages more than this kubota bucket and will get measurements from that too. I wish we had snow, 0 in January after around 4ft in 3 days in Dec so right now things are DRY again

I'll also be sure to post some pics of the bent torque bar through the side plates, that really amazed me how much damaged this caused.

The new QA plate\tube (sold as "Hitch") $940... on the way :/ before I start welding spacers into my attachments, and strengthening the QA attachment connection points I need to be 100% that it's fitting as best as possible... hard pill to swallow but having a 2500lb load come off was bad enough if it had been 6' up and fell sideways onto someone that would have been bad... something I can't risk.

The fork attachment is rated at 4000lbs so this shouldn't have happened but the botom QA\pin point is only 3\16 and has no vertical support in the middle\center so I'm 99% this flexed and the pin popped out or the pin-spring is old and needs replaced or adjusting (I do have those parts luckily).


So the M59 will be getting the new QA piece 4 new FEL\QA pins, and I'll be replacing springs on the retainer pins and making sure they stay.


I did notice if you lift the bucket to eye level and shake it like you're trying to get stuck mud out the pins jump 1\4-1\2" which is kind of scary... I'm not sure if that's due to the shock-load causing the spring to compress or old springs but they're fully engaged and the handles not going up. It moves fast and is hard to spot if you're not looking right at it when you're shaking the bucket.

 

[npalen]

Thanks @rScotty for the detailed reply. The visible line is a score mark I made to highlight current position, as you can tell it's a bit nasty with grinding dust right now I'll check if it's level, but this is the Kubota Bucket and so far their attachments have been much better in terms of quality control and being even on all points vs. aftermarket, but that may not be universally true

Backstory on this... I was unloading a 1.5 ton pallet of feed and was about 6" off the ground, perfectly level when the fork attachment came disconnected from one side and put all the weight on one and tweaked the tube so bad when I cut it one side was behind the other... some cutting and bending and welding and it's even again. But it's made me examine the engagement to be sure that's not part of the problem. I do have a couple other pics of the QA frame the tube goes through, and it's actually bent inward (to center of tractor) from each side maybe 1\8", enough I can see it but in a picture it's challenging, I'll get those posted.


It's looking like maybe one of the QA Springs may be weak? (or both) and allowed movement due to leverage from the weight on the forks and the fork attachment being low quality as that connection point is slightly bent too.

It's looking like maybe one of the QA Springs may be weak? (or both) and allowed movement due to leverage from the weight on the forks

The linkage on my SSQA has an over-center mechanism so it doesn't depend on the spring to hold the pin(s) down in the locked position. That may not be the case on yours?

 

[rScotty]

I'm thinking of adding a fork attachment this spring. Where are those 3/16" pins you mention? Who made your forks?
Now that I've thought about it, forks with a 4000 lb rating seems too light for the M59 loader. Especially since I don't know how they figured the stresses. In today's world I wouldn't put it past them to use forks that are rated at 2000 lbs each and call the combination 4000 lbs. That's the kind of thinking that earns engineers a law suit for negligence - as it should.

On my SSQA I don't think that the SSQA bevel pins can move at all by shaking the bucket. Once engaged, those are some big heavy springs - and I believe they are adjustable for compressive force....at least they look to be. Mine have enough compression that it is necessary to use a 3 foot cheater to release the handles even when the pins have been recently greased.

Like I said, I dropped one side of a bucket once. No load and close to the ground, but I thought it had tweaked things - it hadn't. Now after putting the new implement on I always raise it up a foot and and shake it a few times to make sure that the top V's are engaged fully on both sides. About one time in five it isn't. After that I lower the bucket to an inch off the ground & can stand in the bucket to rotate the handles overcenter as far as they will go without the cheater.

It used to be that was all I did, and then when mine came loose that day I changed the procedure. What had happened was I thought the bevel on the bottom of the SSQA pin was engaged and wasn't. The handles rotated, but one pin didn't come down. Mud stopped from entering fully into the heavy steel slot in the bottom of the bucket SSQA receiver.

So now I carefully visually check that the bevel on BOTH big vertical pins is engaging the bottom of the SSQA for half the length of the bevel - on both sides..... and that the springs are properly extended.

I always feel a bit stupid when I have a tractor accident. And I've had plenty in 60 years. Learned each time.
For a while I wanted a hydraulic SSQA latcher. Now glad I didn't get one. I want to inspect it the latch myself. Every time.

I wonder if the other types of FEL QA are any better?
rScotty

 

[Smokeydog]

Hope your tractor side ssqa plates haven’t twisted. Don’t see evidence of that. Maybe the fork frame is damaged?

I’ve had to shim a couple of attachments ssqa to fit better with the M59. Also added some wings on attachments to better align side to side. Some are stored on uneven ground. I run non-Kubota, skidsteer equipment.

Hadn’t had trouble with the M59 torque tube. Rarely operate without some attachment. Had a limb unlock the grapple on one side a couple of times.

Do mow without an attachment on the B26. It’s torque tube it flimsy and easily bent out of time. A little out of time will align when curled back to lock levers. Nothing a few bumps on a stump will not fix. If it breaks will make stronger.

When you cut and welded the torque tube on or off the tractor? Maybe taking the ssqa off the tractor, 4 pins, and laying on welding bench to check squareness and straightness? Make sure the wedge pins aren’t bent.

 

[Xfaxman]

It's looking like maybe one of the QA Springs may be weak? (or both) and allowed movement due to leverage from the weight on the forks

Some guys have added stop blocks so the pins can't be forced up with the levers down:

Also check that the lever is taking the top of the spring over center:

This prevents the pin from pushing up on the spring and raising the lever, unlatching the attachment and bending the tube.

The other problem area is too big of a gap at the bottom, this is the main cause of bent tubes:

It can be corrected by adding a shim plate:

 

[LouNY]

I have used both the SSQA and the Global quick connect systems and much prefer the global it is much more secure and stable.
Often I have difficulty getting the SSQA to fully seat and get it latched in and the same in removing it.
Often after considerable use my implement pins are so tightly engaged that I can not unlatch them with out the linkage bending or shearing untill I raise the loader up and give the bottom of the pins a sharp rap with a 3 pound hammer to loosen them. Then they will easily unlatch.