Questions about tractor rutts.

[ArtVandelay]

Hello, I am new to these forums.

I have about 11 acres of flat/rolling land in the pacific northwest, 9 acres pasture and the rest trees. A lot of the soil is clay. The clay gets softer and wetter during the fall/winter but it becomes really hard during the spring/summer. There is reed grass on the land also. The reed grass can grow to 6 feet tall. The grass doesn't grow much at all during fall/winter, but it grows really fast during the spring/summer.

I am thinking that a full size utility tractor would be my best bet, especially if I go on vacation for a month during the summer, and the grass grows over 2 feet tall. I like the Mahindra 5500 4WD, 5530 4WD, and 5520 4WD. And I will be pulling a heavy duty 6 ft brush hog to mow the grass. I like the full size utility tractors better than compacts because they seem like they would be able to handle tall grass better, and can handle bigger tasks. But since these tractors weigh over 6000 lbs. (and even a couple thousand pounds more if I get a loader) could they make really deep rutts in the clay? especially during fall/winter when the ground is softer? or is the whole tires rutts thing just exaggerated and no big deal?

I know compact tractors are lighter, but I want a tractor that is more versatile and is not going to get stuck in tall grass.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

[IslandTractor]

Not so sure you really need a utility tractor. I've never heard of any size compact tractor getting "stuck" in tall grass. You might need to mow in low gear/range but so long as you have a matched rotary or flail cutter you should be able to handle 12 acres with a 30-45 hp CUT without any problem at all. I'd think that something like the Kubota B3030 and a 5 ft cutter would be about the smallest and lightest tractor for what you are planning and you could probably justify going up to a 45 hp CUT with a six foot cutter but anything bigger would just be unnecessary unless you are planning to do a lot of plowing or other ground engaging work.

 

[kozak]

Welcome to TBN ArtVandelay.

Unfortunately, the simple answer is YES....you will make big beautiful DEEP rutts with the tractor if the ground is wet & soft. I also have pretty much the same conditions in my area although of course it freezes in the winter. But in the fall & spring I cannot get the tractor out for weeks at a time because I'll just create a mess & I have a lighter tractor than what your thinking of purchasing.

I do have turf tires & that helps a great deal. It's not so much the back tires but the front dig in deeper because they are narrower. Now if you keep the FEL off that would also help. Most first time buyers opt out for the R4 tires as a compromise between the better traction of an Ag style & the least amount of compaction with the turfs.

The best solution would be to have two tractors (one lighter & one big heavier beast), but most cannot afford it.

Vic

 

[CATMAN]

Personally, I recommend that you like the grass grow during the wet seasons, because once you made those ruts in that clay soil, you will be cursing yourself the next time that you try to mow over those old ruts. Whenever my Dad or myself get stuck and/or "plow-thru" a wet spot out in the farmland, we hate it come harvest time (with ruts). We also have to try and "level it out" come next spring IF it is dry enough to get thru. Usually, you drive around on the uphill side and disc downhill so you have gravity on your side if it is still to wet.

Best solution: Never make the ruts in the first place.​

PS: I just got a 150 HP tractor with a 14 foot windrower/cutter stuck on May 30th in 3 1/2 to 4 foot tall winter rye. I found the "wet spot". I should have gotten off of the tractor and physically walked that area first before driving thru. We did get it out with 75 feet of log chain and another tractor.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Not so sure you really need a utility tractor. I've never heard of any size compact tractor getting "stuck" in tall grass. You might need to mow in low gear/range but so long as you have a matched rotary or flail cutter you should be able to handle 12 acres with a 30-45 hp CUT without any problem at all. I'd think that something like the Kubota B3030 and a 5 ft cutter would be about the smallest and lightest tractor for what you are planning and you could probably justify going up to a 45 hp CUT with a six foot cutter but anything bigger would just be unnecessary unless you are planning to do a lot of plowing or other ground engaging work.

How bout a Mahindra 4110 4WD? I know it's not the lighest CUT out there, but it seems really heavy duty and nice. What size brush hog would I want to use for the 4110?

 

[jbrumberg]

ArtVandelay:

Welcome to TBN ! I agree with IslandTractor as to a tractor similar to the Kubota B3030. A 4WD/MFWD tractor that can handle a 5' rotary cutter would probably meet your needs. I maintain 12.5A's mixed woods (~5 A's) and sloped open field and "lawn"
(~7 A's) with a NH TC29DA (weighs ~ 3K#'s with weighted rears and FEL). I maintained this same property with a Ford 1100 (13HP/11+PTO HP) for over twenty years. My tractors never got stuck in the "grass" which can grow to over 6' or the numerous softwood saplings
(1" - 2" diameter), and I was always able to cut everything with a rotary cutter. I can not say the same about the mud or snow with the Ford when it came to getting stuck . Any tractor can leave ruts if the ground is wet enough especially if you have clay based soil and weighted R-1's. I have to be real careful on my "lawn" with my R-1's. Tire selection is important as to its impact on the soil, but tire selection should be based on primary uses. There have been many, many posts as to the relative merits and/or demerits of the different types of tires (weighted and unweighted) and primary use on surface soil. What is important is the tractor weight, ground clearance, and "footprint". If mowing will be your primary task you should look at lighter tractors and if you are interested in ground engaging tasks I would recommend a heavier tractor. You should share with the readership what your short term and long term projects are and the membership will assist you in spending your money. I will warn you that there are many HP junkies in TBN land . By the way my avatar is me coming out of my lower field while brush hogging. Keep the posts coming . Jay

 

[Z-Michigan]

If your main task is mowing tall grass than there's no question you don't need a utility, unless you're planning a mower in the 8' and wider range (which would be rather large for 9 acres).

A CUT in the 30hp range should handle a 6' mower without much trouble. Go up to 40hp if you really want - something like a Kubota L4400 would be good - but anything beyond that is needlessly big for a 6' mower. Just ask me, I have 47 PTO hp on my 6' cutter and it never bogs down while mowing at less than 1/2 throttle. Fortunately I have been doing some heavier tillage and loader tasks so my capability isn't all wasted. Once you get to a 7' or larger mower you are into medium duty mowers with high price tags and lots of weight, and a utility would probably be necessary for the weight if not the hp requirement.

It is best to stay off wet ground. I can tell you that loaded R1 tires will leave serious ruts on wet soil - they have the traction to keep going, but it damages the ground in the process. I mowed an area early this spring when soil was still wet and now I regret it when mowing in dry conditions - it is much bumpier than another part of the same field that I didn't mow in spring. Having said all that, R4 tires with nothing but air in them would be a lot better choice than loaded R1 tires for mowing on wet and soft ground. But it will still leave ruts. Only way to really avoid ruts would be a track machine, but that puts you into a whole new kind of pricing.

 

[IslandTractor]

How bout a Mahindra 4110 4WD? I know it's not the lighest CUT out there, but it seems really heavy duty and nice. What size brush hog would I want to use for the 4110?

Mahindras are excellent tractors. Don't know that you really need that big a machine though. Depending on how often you need to mow and how much time you have I'd personally be looking at lighter tractors or at least something in the 30-40 hp range. Kubota, JD, NH, Mahindra, Kioti and a few other decent brands all make tractors in that range that would serve you well. Check out your local dealer situation as that should be a more important factor frankly than just horsepower. I don't think you need to worry about undersizing so long as you don't go below the Kubota B series 30hp and for my tastes anything over 40hp would be touching on too big. If you are just beating back weeds by bush hogging a few times a year I'd go for the 30hp end of the spectrum with a 5ft hog or maybe a light duty 6ft flail mower like a Caroni. If you want to cut so the pasture starts to resemble a lawn and want to keep it cut every 2-3 weeks then the bigger tractor and bigger mower would make sense.

 

[ArtVandelay]

ArtVandelay:

Welcome to TBN ! I agree with IslandTractor as to a tractor similar to the Kubota B3030. A 4WD/MFWD tractor that can handle a 5' rotary cutter would probably meet your needs. I maintain 12.5A's mixed woods (~5 A's) and sloped open field and "lawn"
(~7 A's) with a NH TC29DA (weighs ~ 3K#'s with weighted rears and FEL). I maintained this same property with a Ford 1100 (13HP/11+PTO HP) for over twenty years. My tractors never got stuck in the "grass" which can grow to over 6' or the numerous softwood saplings
(1" - 2" diameter), and I was always able to cut everything with a rotary cutter. I can not say the same about the mud or snow with the Ford when it came to getting stuck . Any tractor can leave ruts if the ground is wet enough especially if you have clay based soil and weighted R-1's. I have to be real careful on my "lawn" with my R-1's. Tire selection is important as to its impact on the soil, but tire selection should be based on primary uses. There have been many, many posts as to the relative merits and/or demerits of the different types of tires (weighted and unweighted) and primary use on surface soil. What is important is the tractor weight, ground clearance, and "footprint". If mowing will be your primary task you should look at lighter tractors and if you are interested in ground engaging tasks I would recommend a heavier tractor. You should share with the readership what your short term and long term projects are and the membership will assist you in spending your money. I will warn you that there are many HP junkies in TBN land . By the way my avatar is me coming out of my lower field while brush hogging. Keep the posts coming . Jay

I want to be able to run a 6ft Bush Hog at a good speed so that I get the 9 acres mowed in a reasonable amount of time, even if the grass is 3 feet tall. I will be mowing the entire 9 acres once every 2 weeks during the entire spring and summer. I might till about a 1/2 acre to grow some fruits and vegetables. And, I may need to remove a stump once in a while. That's what I will be using the tractor for.

 

[IslandTractor]

I want to be able to run a 6ft Bush Hog at a good speed so that I get the 9 acres mowed in a reasonable amount of time, even if the grass is 3 feet tall. I will be mowing the entire 9 acres once every 2 weeks during the entire spring and summer. I might till about a 1/2 acre to grow some fruits and vegetables. And, I may need to remove a stump once in a while. That's what I will be using the tractor for.

Well, if you are mowing every 2 weeks it is unlikely you will be mowing 3ft tall grass except the first time in the spring. Depending on how rough your pastures are, you could either use a 6ft bush hog for a rough pasture with about a 35hp tractor or alternatively a 30hp tractor pulling either a 6ft light duty flail if there are not a lot of rocks or even a 6ft finish mower if the pasture is clean. Tilling half an acre is no sweat even for a 20hp tractor. Removing the occasional stump probably doesn't justify owning a backhoe but if the stumps are more than 6 inches or so you'll have trouble getting them out efficiently with just your FEL. Perhaps consider renting a BH occasionally.

 

[Timber]

Welcome to the group,
Lots of good info hear for you. I have a 30 horse cut but I don't do any grass cutting with it. I will tell you when it is wet the front wheels will sink into the soft soil. The heaver the tractor the longer it will be before you can work your fields. Your not going to be able to use a 6 foot mower on a 30 horse cut. not that it won't work but it will vibrate through the tractor. Personally if it were me I would consider the B3030 possibly with a cab with a loader and hoe for your stump removal. The loader and hoe are removable to lighten the tractor up. I would not fill your tires as the hoe will be plenty of wt. for the loader.Seems to me that if your willing to spent the doe on a much bigger tractor, spend the money on a smaller one that will do a larger variety of chores & do a better job at it. This is a case where bigger is not better

 

[gf5205]

If your reed grass is the same as the Reed Canary Grass that we have here in Maine I think you'll want more horsepower than the rule of thumb of 5 HP/ft. We had some hay fields that were too wet to hay last year so we ended up bushhogging the wet areas. The Reed Canary was 6 or 7 feet and mature. It cut hard. We used a 48 PTO HP JD5203 with a 6' MX6 cutter and it was slow going. Some of it was in the lowest gear. If the grass will never get over mature or too high then the rule of thumb is good, but my experience was different.
Greg

 

[Z-Michigan]

I bought extra hp with the thought that I could mow at faster speeds. Hasn't worked out that way - oh, I have the hp, but I'm bumping all over the place, the cutter is bumping out of sync with the tractor, and I'm basically scalping ground and damaging the cutter without producing a good cut. Unless your ground is really smooth, the width of the mower will be far more important in your cutting speed than going fast with it. Plan on only 4-5mph unless really smooth ground. Of course more width takes mower power, but it also takes counterweight to keep the cutter under control. I would be inclined to think about a 6' cutter with something in the 30-40hp range and just mow often enough that you don't have to slow down too much.

 

[KaiB]

I can't yet understand why you would want to mow every two weeks during the spring and summer. That's quite a chore and will get rather expensive.

As Daddy always said, if you're leaving ruts, you're in the wrong **** place...

I don't know what Reed Grass is, but it occurs to me that you may want to take a look at managing (controlling) it and putting your acreage into something more productive or maintainable. Once you do this, you may have a different set of decisions regarding your tractor and its use long term.

 

[Keith_B]

How bout a Mahindra 4110 4WD? I know it's not the lighest CUT out there, but it seems really heavy duty and nice. What size brush hog would I want to use for the 4110?

I've got a 4110, it is the perfect size as it is a large CUT, putting it between the CUTs and the Utilities. I use a 5' heavy duty bush hog on my 4110. I use the 5 footer because it belonged to my late father-in-law and I don't see any need to invest in a new six footer when this one is here on the farm and works great for my uses.

The 4110 has plenty of power, and should run a six footer easily for the tasks you have in mind.

 

[Timber]

I can't yet understand why you would want to mow every two weeks during the spring and summer. That's quite a chore and will get rather expensive.

As Daddy always said, if you're leaving ruts, you're in the wrong **** place...

I don't know what Reed Grass is, but it occurs to me that you may want to take a look at managing (controlling) it and putting your acreage into something more productive or maintainable. Once you do this, you may have a different set of decisions regarding your tractor and its use long term.

I understand why he is cutting every 2 weeks. I have to do it every week. I have 3 to 4 acres of lawn and if I miss a week I'm in trouble. I have to cut every week or I'm in tall thick grass and then I have to sweep the lawn as well as cut it.
A 30 horse cut is rated for a 5 foot rear deck. Like I said it will run a 6 footer but you'll get a better response, cut and ride with the 5 footer

 

[hsvhobbit]

Buy whatever tractor you really want of course. but it seems to me as though you're equating Compact Tractor with Lawn tractor. Don't discount the kind of work the CUT's are capable of doing. I've cut 'grass' with my Kubota 4630 that was literally higher than my head when I'm on the tractor and the tractor never even noticed it was there. This was with a 6' Rhino standard duty bushhog. In the tractor world, standard or light duty equates to normal-around-the-farm work, Medium/heavy duty is pretty much what the commercial guys put stuff through. 3 Foot tall grass? With any decent horsepower tractor you'll be able to go through it like butter, you'll be limited more by the bouncing around than by the equipment. 5 MPH is pretty darn FAST bushhogging a field in my limited experience. Figure with a 6' cutter you'll cover around 1-1.5 acres per hour.

As far as ruts? Basically if it's wet, don't take ANY machine out there or there will be ruts, heck, even a tracked vehicle will probably leave SOME ruts.

 

[Greyfields]

I live in the soggy pacific northwest as well. I'm on an island in the Columbia River where the ground water is between 2 and 3' down. Using a 4120, I can get on the wetter areas in late May. Anytime sooner, I leave ruts, which are very annoying to deal with in the Summer when the soil dries out. Here, we're a silt soil, with not too much clay. Here is my experience:

My 4120 runs a 6' Frontier rotary cutter with ease. In the tall clumps of canary reed grass and tussock, sometimes the turbo kicks in for a few moments, but I hardly slow down (I mow at about 3.5 mph).

Be sure to get a 4WD tratcor. Do not consider any 2WD options, even with differential lock.

My 4120 weighs around 4000 lbs with me on it. If I drive over the lawn, it leaves marks (not ruts). They disappear within a couple days.

 

[ArtVandelay]

I live in the soggy pacific northwest as well. I'm on an island in the Columbia River where the ground water is between 2 and 3' down. Using a 4120, I can get on the wetter areas in late May. Anytime sooner, I leave ruts, which are very annoying to deal with in the Summer when the soil dries out. Here, we're a silt soil, with not too much clay. Here is my experience:

My 4120 runs a 6' Frontier rotary cutter with ease. In the tall clumps of canary reed grass and tussock, sometimes the turbo kicks in for a few moments, but I hardly slow down (I mow at about 3.5 mph).

Be sure to get a 4WD tratcor. Do not consider any 2WD options, even with differential lock.

My 4120 weighs around 4000 lbs with me on it. If I drive over the lawn, it leaves marks (not ruts). They disappear within a couple days.

Greyfield, thanks for the response. I think that I would get done faster with a 4120 and 6ft rotary cutter. And IMO that setup would be the most ideal for mowing 9 acres of pasture. On the other hand, I'm sure I could get by fine with a 3320 and a 5ft rotary cutter, but it just wouldn't be as fast.

 

[Greyfields]

If I did it over again, I'd go 4320. There are a lot of 40 HP PTO implements, but it gets more scarce down to the 35 HP PTO.