Question on property lines / easements / encroachment

[KTurner]

My property is a "flagpole" lot, where I have a 50' wide strip of land that extends out to the main road, between other properties. There's a paved road on this 50' wide strip that belongs to me. I understand there's an easement that allows the other two lots to use the easement to get to their lots (as their lots don't touch the public road) - but these lots have been this way for 30, maybe 60 years (all family, maybe there never was an easement?). These other two lots have been family owned, but one person sold their (empty) lot last year. A house has been built on it for a disabled vet who is going to take ownership of the house/property soon. My paved road does not line up with the edge of the 50' wide strip. The driveway, mailbox, irrigation system, etc that has been installed on this lot appears to have been done so with the assumption that the property extended to the edge of the paved road. At one corner, the property is probably 12' from the road while the other is about a foot.

Does anyone have experience with this type of situation? Not even sure what the possibilities are. I'm assuming the easement, assuming there is one, gives them the right to travel across my property, but not treat it as their own (and I'm not sure how to verify what the easement says or if one even exists). I certainly don't want to welcome our new neighbor with a property dispute and delay the delivery of their new home (which has already been delayed by months). Practically speaking, I don't know what I'd use that land for since it's between the road and their house. Most people would assume it belongs to that house because of that. Unfortunately, the county had tore out the private road (and put in a new one) to install sewer and tore out everything I had used as a reference for the property line.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Keith

 

[srossman]

Two suggestions
1. Get a new survey done with pins at the corners of your lot. The cost is definitely worth it for the piece of mind it brings you and probably your neighbors too since they didn't pay for it.
2. I would read your deed, and the deeds of the surrounding land owners. I was able to log on to my county government web site and search for any deed that I wanted to. I was able to find that I had an easement to be able to access my property from another direction.

Hope that helps.

 

[jlgurr]

You should be able to obtain a copy of the deed if you don't already have one. They are public record here. If the lot description is clear enough it might be all you need. (We gave iron pins at corners of our property.) If not you may need a survey to prove it.

Whether it turns out ugly or not depends on the new owner and how you present the encroachment. Bad neighbors are no fun so do your best to be cordial. In other words don't send the survey results by registered mail.

Sent from my iPhone 2.0 using TractorByNet

 

[turnkey4099]

Survey firat above all. Until you have that you are only speculating. From the description of the use of the road over the years It would appear that at "Presumptive ROW" exists if no formal one can be found - that would also probably apply to any empty lots that were owned by people useing the road.

Harry K

 

[KTurner]

A surveyor was out today marking the lot soon to belong to my new neighbor. He clearly marked the corner of their lot with a rod and stake labeled "property corner". This rod is ~10' from the road and their mailbox, irrigation, etc are on the my side of that marker. I have a deed from 1986 for my property that does not mention an easement. I have a plat from 1987 that has the flagpole portion of my lot labeled as "50' lane or right-of-way - see PB7 @ PG164 & DB228 PG 507", but doesnt say who has right of way. PB7 PG 164 is available online and doesnt say anything about an easement. I guess I'll have to go to the county tomorrow to get a look at DB228.

By rough calculation, we're talking a ~1200 sqft area, based on their surveyors markings.

Keith

 

[/pine]

I'm sure it varies by location/municipality etc... but here there is a difference between a right of way and an easement...generally an easement allows ingress and egress to a related property...

Who pays the taxes on the property being discussed?

 

[smstonypoint]

I would be surprised if the new house is mortgaged and there is no easement. It would make sense for the lender to make sure there is an easement before issuing the mortgage.

Steve

 

[KTurner]

Who pays the taxes on the property being discussed?

I pay property taxes on it.

Keith

 

[mapper]

You stated that you really don't use the strip of land for much other than access to your main piece of property. How much do you pay in taxes for it? Consider transferring title to the new owner, one granting you all of the easement rights for access, utilities etc. Do the same for the other piece as well, that way you transfer the tax burden onto those properties.

 

[Qapla]

Since the OP mentioned "delivery of the new home", I would guess it is a Mobile Home, therefore, a mortgage would not be in the mix since a MH can be financed without land.

 

[KTurner]

I would be surprised if the new house is mortgaged and there is no easement. It would make sense for the lender to make sure there is an easement before issuing the mortgage.

Steve

I doubt there is a mortgage involved since this house is being built by a charity, and in my understanding, given to the vet.

Keith

 

[newbury]

<snip>
By rough calculation, we're talking a ~1200 sqft area, based on their surveyors markings.

Keith

Where the heck are you?
1200 sq feet could be worth a million in Manhattan or fifty dollars in Mississippi.

I've a lot in Alexandria, Virginia. When the county redid the road and put in sidewalks and driveway aprons about 35 years ago the messed up.

Good fences make good neighbors but good surveys are needed for good fences.

I've had three "major" experiences w/ surveys altering perceived reality.
The first was land my Dad and Grandad bought in 1963. "20 acres, more or less". When Dad had it surveyed prior to sale, about 1981, it had grown to slightly over 30 acres.

When I bought my suburban lot in Alexandria, Va in 1978 the neighbors had established fences and bushes for the property lines. Shortly thereafter the County redid the street w/ curbs and driveway aprons.

In 2012 the house next door sold to a "flipper". He casually told me how he wanted to widen his driveway.
In the picture he thought he was going to be able to widen his driveway right up to the side of the well cover one can see in the pic about near the top.

He argued that he "must own" to the full width of the driveway apron where it meet the street plus a few feet.

I got a survey. They pinned it where the arrow points to actual corner location. He immediately got a survey from a different firm. Same pin point. He gave up on the thought of widening the driveway.

The third experience major experience was buying my present retirement house. It was advertised "2.5 acres", google map indicated more, we bought in a heartbeat, it's 3.5 acres. Once again an expanding universe.

That difference from the pin to the west edge of the driveway apron is about 4 feet. Going back 250 feet that would have lost me about 500 sq feet. And the land is worth about $10/sq ft.

Also laws vary greatly. In Mississippi my real estate lawyer tells me that ALL "landlocked" parcels have an access easement by law.

 

[/pine]

I pay property taxes on it.

Keith

I can only speak for our own situation here...where connected property owners have only the right of ingress and egress...it's still private property...

 

[lennyzx11]

I would definitely bring it up. Oklahoma has a rule that if someone "maintains and improves" vacant land then ownership can be claimed.
Sell the piece to them?
Give them a 99 year lease for amount to cover taxes?
Deed it to them going for the whole karma thing. (That is not me though. Land is hard to come by. They don't make it anymore.)
I'd probably take a cold drink over and introduce myself and then act kinda confused saying that according to what your surveyor and deed says then the contractors are building on your side.
I got in a pissing match with my neighbor and she was positive that my propane tank was on her side. I moved it back to keep the peace knowing I was right. Then had a surveyor come out and rep in it with her and her family standing right there. It was exactly where I told them. She ate crow till her house burnt down but still won't sell that land to me.claims it's too sentimental.

 

[Zerk]

Since the OP mentioned "delivery of the new home", I would guess it is a Mobile Home, d.

They make alot of fancy prefab homes that are delivered. They used only be ranges, that came in pieces. But I think they got 2 story models now.

Not cheap mobile homes. Some people like them because they are put up fast. My buddy felt it was better because it was built in doors, beefier to survive delivery. I dunno.

These would be mortgaged with a construction loan just like a stick built house. I don't know if down payment varies.

 

[Rustyiron]

I'm not sure on how different this is from state to state, but if it get's too confusing, a "Title" Company, such as you would use (to satisfy a lender) at a property purchase/settlement can research all the contiguous properties revealing any "right of ways". The charge should be less than a surveyor (he'll have to do similar research) locating and pinning the corners. Actually a local surveyor might be the best place for guidance here as to your first step. In some states, a non recorded right of way go's dead after so many years of not being used, but then many states do not allow for "landlocked" parcels also. Good luck.

 

[Zerk]

I would think reading your deed or paper work from title insurance maybe, would be cheaper then getting it sureyed.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Good fences make good neighbors but good surveys are needed for good fences.


Also laws vary greatly. In Mississippi my real estate lawyer tells me that ALL "landlocked" parcels have an access easement by law.

Tell me about it. My surveyor informed me today that the township dividing line monument is located three feet to the south of where the actual township line, and my north end of my new parcel is located.

In Minnesota, all new subdivisions must have access via a public 66' wide road.

In order for me to subdivide, I need two variances. The first is that my property is accessed by a 66' wide private easement, not a public easement. The second variance is that the new 66' wide easement I create will also be a private easement thereby creating a legal private road into a new subdivision.

As my surveyor noted, I cannot imagine the county is excited to plow and maintain all these public easements.

 

[hosspuller]

First beware adverse possession. Time depends on your state law. You may think it minor now, but it could prevent future building or even sale. * If you want to be neighborly with the land. You could give permission for the encroachment. Do it in writing and the neighbor signs it acknowledging it's your land and is used with permission. This prevents them taking it by adverse possession since you gave permission.

This is not legal advice ... just some point you have to research yourself.

* say the new neighbor takes via adverse possession 5 feet. You now have only 45 feet for your road. Perhaps the state requirement for taking over maintenance requires 50 feet of right-of-way. Your easement will never get to be an official road unless you get the 5 feet back. I wouldn't buy such a home without a considerable financial incentive.

 

[turnkey4099]

First beware adverse possession. Time depends on your state law. You may think it minor now, but it could prevent future building or even sale. * If you want to be neighborly with the land. You could give permission for the encroachment. Do it in writing and the neighbor signs it acknowledging it's your land and is used with permission. This prevents them taking it by adverse possession since you gave permission.

This is not legal advice ... just some point you have to research yourself.

* say the new neighbor takes via adverse possession 5 feet. You now have only 45 feet for your road. Perhaps the state requirement for taking over maintenance requires 50 feet of right-of-way. Your easement will never get to be an official road unless you get the 5 feet back. I wouldn't buy such a home without a considerable financial incentive.

Yes to written agreement as sto use of that land. It is highly recommended that that agreement be resigned every few years.

Harry K