Question about PTO Operation

[MikeD74T]

kp, When you accidently turned the ignition off did you immediately turn it back on? If so that's most likely when the shear pin broke. Broken shear pins is part of the leaening curve with electric pto engagement. MikeD74t

 

[Guesseral]

When I first got my 4944 I had a lot of trouble with sheer pins breaking we never used a actural sheer pin in the mower we always used a bolt. We never had any trouble with it sheering unless we hit something real hard, then the bolt would just sheer like it was suppose to. But when I got the new tractor the tork from the PTO was so much greater that I was sheering the bolt real often. I came to the conclusion that it was from starting the mower up, because I was doing it just like I always did I would take the motor RPM's up to where the tack showed for the PTO speed (can't remember the RPM's right now) and engaging the PTO some times it would sheer right then some times it would last for a while but I went through a lot of bolts. I think that the instant engagement of the PTO from 0 to 540 RMS right now was just eating up the bolts at start at that RPM, I even went to a grade 8 bolt it would last longer but still had a lot of sheered bolts. What I do now is to engage the PTO at an idle speed so it engages slower and then increase the RPM's to the PTO speed and I have not had any problems since, but I still use the grade 8 bolt.
I should have realized the problem sooner than I did, but coming from the old school ford 841 without a 2 stage and an overrun clutch that engaged slowly as I released the clutch I just didn't even think of the instant tork that the independant electricaly engaged clutch would deliver. I am not sure if you have the same electricaly engagement on your unit but the way you describe it it sounds like you do. Maybe you are starting to sheer the pin on engagement also and you should try a lower RPM at the startup.

 

[rocknrod]

Id be afraid of damaging the gear box on the shredder (grade 8 shear pin bolt). I use a regular 1/2 inch bolt.
I also engage at idle then increase rpm slowly. But I have an independent PTO. I also have manual PTO

 

[Guesseral]

Yea I use a 1/2 bolt also. I probably should go to a lesser grade bolt, now that I know why I was going through so many. And yea I think I have a manual for the mower somewhere. Even read it way back when, even read the tractor manual, this was not covered. I was just used to the old style tractor and operation, boy does 50 years make a difference! :confused2:

Oh you ment manual PTO not an actural manual! Sorry I thought......well just stupid. I also have the independant and the manual PTO.

Just a learning curve!

 

[kpbeddin]

kp, When you accidently turned the ignition off did you immediately turn it back on? If so that's most likely when the shear pin broke. Broken shear pins is part of the leaening curve with electric pto engagement. MikeD74t

Mike, I did not turn key or restart immediately. I'm fairly certain that I let the engine completely stop, turned PTO to off position, then restarted. If I were to guess, the tractor was shut down for 5 to 10 seconds BTW, on my tractor the PTO and ignition key are in the same general location which I think increased the likelihood of that error.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

OVER RIDING CLUTCH - Agri Supply

Well looked around quite a bit and agrisuppy.com had the best price with shipping that I could find so I just ordered one from them:

Item Total: $32.95
Tax: $0.00
Shipping (info): $16.00
ORDER TOTAL: $48.95

Seems like a "no-brainer" to me. Thanks to everybody for the information.

 

[rocknrod]

Well looked around quite a bit and agrisuppy.com had the best price with shipping that I could find so I just ordered one from them:...

I know I always check with those guys and find some great stuff.
I found the PTO shaft quick release ring there and installed it on my shaft. No one else in the world would help me.

 

[kpbeddin]

I noticed Agri Supply also appears to have the best price on Pat's Easy Hitch.

 

[MikeD74T]

Mike, I did not turn key or restart immediately. I'm fairly certain that I let the engine completely stop, turned PTO to off position, then restarted. If I were to guess, the tractor was shut down for 5 to 10 seconds BTW, on my tractor the PTO and ignition key are in the same general location which I think increased the likelihood of that error.

On my Kioti one of the pto switches is right at my right elbow on the fender. I've accidentally bumped it to off & without thinking just turned it back on only to immediately shear the pin. Only took about a half dozen pins to learn -DON'T DO THAT! :laughing: Electric instant on pto is hard on pins if engaged at above idle. MikeD74T

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

Well looked around quite a bit and agrisuppy.com had the best price with shipping that I could find so I just ordered one from them:

Item Total: $32.95
Tax: $0.00
Shipping (info): $16.00
ORDER TOTAL: $48.95

Seems like a "no-brainer" to me. Thanks to everybody for the information.

Turns out it was a "brainer" -- this one from AgriSupply requires the PTO shaft to have a hole in it. Tried to install it yesterday and the S3010 PTO has no hole.:ashamed: Hopefully it can ship it back for less than 16 bucks.

 

[kpbeddin]

Thats not good. I have one on the way so I will be shipping mine back too.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

Thats not good. I have one on the way so I will be shipping mine back too.

Hey Keith,

Look at your brush hog first before shipping it back -- it might fit back there. Unfortunately, that didn't work for me. Actually, I think they want you to use it on the other end of the PTO shaft for safety reasons.

There are no instructions, but it's pretty obvious how it works IF you have a hole in the PTO shaft. It comes with two zerk fittings and the holding pin will go between them through the PTO shaft. The hole in the PTO shaft may be a JD thing. It looks like this:

I'm going to need one with a quick disconnect like this:

Anybody know where I can get one like it for $50-$60?

EDIT: I just found one here:

Quick disconnect PTO overrun clutch

Any other sources?

 

[kpbeddin]

Hey Little Blue,
After looking at my setup, I went ahead and bought a quick connect type from my dealer (who is also my neighbor). Had I paid shipping, the price somewhere else would have been a wash and I got it today and have used it already. Also, he has given me such great deals on everything else, I wouldn't have minded paying him a little extra. I think you will find this to be exactly what you need as I did. Just be careful and make sure your shaft doesn't need to be shortened; mine was OK since I had installed Pat's easy change hitches which lengthened the lift arms by about the same amount. Take care

 

[houstonscott]

I had the new U5030 out mowing this weekend. First timer. I broke the shear pin too. I was fine for about two hours but after stopping I guess I had to much RPM on and it broke. Believe me it wasn't hard to do, not sure if it happened when I engaged PRO after stopping or when I put some RPR on after starting to role. I did throttle up a bit fast and that is what most likely sheared the pin. Anyway guess I'll learn how to change it out fast. I decided to mow at a tractor RPM or 2000 that was well below the PTO 540 mark. I want to run that engine in slowly and and I want the gearing in the mower to turn slowly for a while too. Any thoughts there? I changed RPM's like breaking in a car diesel from 2000 to 2100 and back for the first two hours. Don't plan to move up to 2600RPM until after the first 50hrs are in and the first oil change is made. My own break-in schedule. Just an old school diesel boat guy.

HS

 

[Gary Fowler]

The twist to unlock PTO overrun clutch is available at RCO tractor, but it aint cheap at $69 plus shipping. Man things have went up since I bought mine 3 years ago. I saw them at Atwoods a while back, but didnt price them but I dont think they were that much.
RCO Tractor - Tractor Safety Equipment

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have to apologize to everyone. I just found my tractor invoice and my overrun clutch was $65 so I guess $68 is not a bad price but the $15 shipping is not good. Surely a tractor dealer in the vicinity has them although I am not convinced that you guys with an independent PTO really need them. I just cant see that the PTO would lock up if the ignition switch was accidently turned off. It seems to me that the inertia in the mower would keep turning the engine till it spun down, just like the old 8n would keep pushing you forward if you clutched it, even with you on the brakes. I've been there, done that and still never sheared a pin.
I would just experiment on that at the risk of having to replace a shear bolt by turning off the key with the PTO in gear before spending $83 for an overrun clutch that you shouldnt need on independent PTO. DO they even make a tractor now without independent PTO clutch?

 

[kpbeddin]

Gary, It probably is overkill but I feel better having one because in my brief experience using the overrun clutch I have heard it ratchet down nearly every time I slow the RPMs or turn the PTO off. If nothing else it is an extra layer of protection that keeps undue stress off of the shear pin and more importantly, the drive line when using those implements that tend to continue after stopping the PTO.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Tractor Supply Company has a slip clutch that replaces the shear pin system for $129 for better protection of your system if anyone is interested. My new bush hog has a slip clutch on it and it is the only one I have ever had with a slip clutch so I cant say how well I like it yet as I didnt have anything to cut when I picked it up in March. Hope to see how well it works when I get home next time.

For you guys installing the overrun clutch, make sure that the drive shaft is not too long. Prior to hooking it up, raise the implement to full height and make sure your PTO shaft will retract far enough to keep from pushing in on your tractor shaft.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

I have to apologize to everyone. I just found my tractor invoice and my overrun clutch was $65 so I guess $68 is not a bad price but the $15 shipping is not good. Surely a tractor dealer in the vicinity has them although I am not convinced that you guys with an independent PTO really need them. I just cant see that the PTO would lock up if the ignition switch was accidently turned off. It seems to me that the inertia in the mower would keep turning the engine till it spun down, just like the old 8n would keep pushing you forward if you clutched it, even with you on the brakes. I've been there, done that and still never sheared a pin.
I would just experiment on that at the risk of having to replace a shear bolt by turning off the key with the PTO in gear before spending $83 for an overrun clutch that you shouldnt need on independent PTO. DO they even make a tractor now without independent PTO clutch?

No apologies necessary Gary. I've already sent back the one I got from AgriSupply. I've got a buddy that lives in Austin who will drop by RCO and pick me up one before he comes to Houston in a few weeks, so I don't have to pay for the shipping.

I'm pretty sure I'll be OK on the PTO shaft length as I've already extended it by a few inches by installing the 3 pt. quick hitch.

 

[Hoyle]

What size is that roll pin .