Question about land survey

[Mousefield]

First, in our area it is illegal to move or tamper with a survey marker. It could be there for any number of reasons. Highways, gas co. Power co. Private right of way, neighbor, sewer line etc. We had our property surveyed and our corners marked (because a former neighbor logged some of our property) but then we also have an unopened road allowance along two sides of us as well as a private right of way for a fiber optic line about 400 ft from our property. All have been surveyed and have corner pegs were they intersect. We had, last year, surveyors from the neighboring forest company ask if they could survey through our property to get to acreage about ｽ mile away, it is all through bush. They used our corner markers and it made life a lot easier for them.
If you are not sure, as you mentioned you assumed, where your corner marker is then another survey may be in order. If I had paid for a survey and someone pulled up the pegs and flagging I would be a tad upset. Guess who I would expect to pay for it to be resurveyed.

 

[Skyco]

I have 10 acres in the NC mountains. It was originally a 9 acre piece and a 1 acre piece. A couple of years ago we went up there and someone had surveyed the boundary line between my two pieces, nothing else. Really ticked me off cause they spray painted dayglo orange stripes on my trees. I went and bought some gray and brown paint and painted over all their marks on my trees.
Went back a few weeks later and the orange marks were back.
That did it.
Called the attorney for the adjacent landowner, 1300 acres worth, and inquired.
Yes they were using my internal line as a reference for something they were doing. I had no problem with them staking the ends of the line as that is a common point between us.
The attorney was told in no uncertain terms I better not ever find them painting MY trees again on an internal line that has nothing to do with them, the end points ok but stay off my internal line with the paint.

 

[alexinPA]

How old is your survey??? They were not that great... although, lines were pretty well laid out with corners... My friend bought "23 acres" and had agreed to a price per acre based on a new survey. Property ended up being 14.5 +/- acres. The corners were correct so this really doesn't apply... :ashamed: but I could see where anyone could place a pipe in the ground *wanting* the corner to be there... Your survey should state if it was a pipe or a plate... sounds like a trip to the court house.

Thanks to all for the info... The only survey that was done is in the Deed and dated 1960.
The Co still exists, but different owner. My property is 44a, next is 70 and another is 5.
The corner location in the Deed is sketchy, dence woods around (have to ride ATV to that
place). What ticks me off is with all the $ we pay at the closing, there is no warranty in even your property borders... I hate to pay again to proof somebody (one of the survey
co) made an error. As I said, none of the neighbors knew who did the last markings.
So, if you willing to spend $ you might get your property bigger (another survey)

 

[teg]

When we closed, we "agreed" that the 1940's survey was fine... I did not care to pay 3k to make sure it was perfect... just happy we closed

It's a crap shoot... if the new survey shows your property to be smaller, think, less taxes. Which is what my friend was gunning for... He had a good idea on area and acreage. The survey was not cheap and I don't know if with a boundary dispute if you can get to recoup the money spent to re-set your line, if you are correct... but at this time, you don't even know who was doing the survey (or for what reasons...)

 

[Carl_NH]

I have lived the issue of "reference stakes" and actual "boundary pins" with a recent small logging job on our 6ac lot. Most if not all surveyors use reference points with flags, paint, stakes, etc to make a measurement reference to the next point especially in rough areas.

In our case I hired the surveyor and they made the reference points "inside"our property line then set the "corners" or boundary pins" when it was verified with the adjacent lots. This is a 3/4=1" solid steel pin 18-20" long set in the ground with the surveyor mark on it.

The real issue became the "reference stakes" and flags which the adjacent owners ( I have 5) thought this was their land even though their deed and pins were accurate - all they cared about was the temporary and visible stakes, flags and "reference points" because the actual steel boundary pins are next to impossible to see and find.

Bottom line, I removed all the "reference point marks, stakes and flags" once the boundary pins were planted I marked (with a diff color)and advised the neighbors the actual pin locations according to our plot plan and theirs.

Most counties now have on line records and deeds, plot/acreage plans, so with a bit of diligence and work you can get these records THEN get the survey done - this was my tact.

That said, it is not unusual for large or odd shaped lots to have a variance especially if the plan is 1940/1960 era where the map says XXAc +- and rudimentary terminology e.g. approximately 500 feet to a stone mark, then 350 feet to a large oak etc. In these cases it is a matter of 'discussion" with the neighbors to resolve.

Carl

 

[gauthier]

Well,still say communication avoids big problems many times,can see where a surveyer might not have the time to come find me,but also think he should clean up his mess,[I've had them on my property without me knowing leaving their lunch leavings behind,not to mention all those referance ribbons all over the place],,have seen them do things I wouldn't do,sure not all are unprofessional,but some are,just a fact.
Its up to your neighbor to get ahold of you really,thats one reason I don't care for most of my neighbors
And I've pulled plenty of surverys things out/off,and didn't hear one word about it,,a survey is just that,I can get it surveyed too,,than we can go to court and argue about it,a stake or ribbon means nothing to me really,,I pull it out,its not there anymore,,,now if you decide to treaspass because of that ribbon or stake,than I take that seriously.

 

[schmism]

Like I said, its against the law to pull survey markers. How would you feel if you paid for a survey, and then your neighbor pulled your stakes?

For a surveyor im surprised you dont make it more clear the difference between an official survey MARKER and a "stake".

one being a pin/monument marked with the surveyors name/number... the other simply being a wooden stake set for visual information.

Pulling/removing markers = bad

wooden stakes.... not so much of a big deal.

 

[dodge man]

First off, there is a problem with the terminology. There are corner markers and points I call traverse points. The corner markers are the ones we mark with rebar in my area. Some states require they have caps on them or tags with the surveyors license number on them. If you pull these, its a problem.

Traverse points or reference points are points we put in the ground to work off of. As someone stated, this is often true in rough areas. We don't often setup our equipment on the actual property corners but use these reference marks and measure the angles to the actual corners. This sounds complicated buts its not. We often use landscape spikes for these traverse points(reference points), some companies use wood stakes, or smaller nails. I like to leave them in the ground because we never know when we will get called back in the future for additonal work. I've used these reference points 10 years later for other jobs. It is much less of a problem to pull these points. If they are marked with a wood lath or flagging, there is not a problem pulling these if they are in the way or you get tired of mowing around them.

I can't tell you the number of times people THINK they know where the boundary lines are. This is often based on vague facts passed down from previous owners. When someone gets a survey done, they are often upset when it doesn't match where they thought the boundary was. People are often very emotional over there boundaries and can get very upset.

Going to court is usually a losing situation for both owners. I've seen $10,000 spent in court to gain $1000 worth of land. Even the person that wins, is really a loser when you look at the value of the land.

I'll also say surveying in Pa is different than Illinois. Pa is a metes and bounds state. Whats this means is that the deed is usually written in a language that says "thence 300 rods to a stone wall" or "thence 300 rods to the corner of John Smiths property". These descriptions can be difficult to survey and can result in conflicts. Communication truely is the key. There is a reason a surveyor is out there, you just have to figure out why.

 

[alexinPA]

Dodge Man,
I'd appriciate if you can answer these questions for me:
-since the original survey is part of the Deed, wouldn't it have a precedence if corner stakes are located as described?
-was it a common practice in the past to put different color tags on the corner stake, each tag for each property?
-if you marking property line from point A to point B, found location of point B, ready to stake it and some distance away is an old corner stake... What would you do? Ignore it,or use as your point B?
Thanks again,
Alex

 

[sweettractors]

One point of interest on farm surveying, In Ky, the old surveys (done with pole/rods/chains or whatever) always show 10-15 % more land than the new surveys show. For example we bought a 165 acre old surveyed farm the actually was a 143 acre farm on the new survey. Ken Sweet