Pulling tree out with wheel & chain?

   / Pulling tree out with wheel & chain?
  • Thread Starter
#51  
Good progress. You could get one of these and mount that winch on anything with a 2" receiver.

That's what my HF winch is mounted on actually; I put a receiver on the front of the truck - initially to provide a front tow-point since these trucks didn't come with recovery hooks and the frame ends where the bumper mounts aren't appropriate on their own - the frame rails aren't connected together until a few feet back so you could tweak the rails if you pull to the side on one. The receiver hitch spans between them right at the end providing extra structure... and obviously enables a removable winch, which I also wired to the back of the truck.

I've been thinking through my options for removing some tree trunks that I've already cut.

Reading the arborist forums, some of those guys distrust using any truck or tractor as an anchor point for tree work, one issue being that tires only have so much ground contact.

While 3pt forestry winches incorporate blades to resist the forces of winching an already downed log, I don't recall seeing any examples of someone using one to winch out a stump.

Right now, I am wondering how effective it would be to toss some of HF's moving blankets over the lines/straps used to pull if they were to break? The moving blankets are pretty cheap to buy.

Not only do the tires have relatively low traction, but a lot of arborist winch work has the line going up into a tree, so it's lifting the truck off of the contact - reducing the traction. Pulling on the A-frame that I have, on flat ground, would result in a slight upward pull (the pull point on the A-frame is just under 7' up); in this video I was actually pulling slightly down.

The other problem of course that assuming it's an automatic transmission with the parking break engaged, you can only count on traction from both rear wheels (from the parking brake assuming it's well adjusted) and partial from the front unless you have a locking front differential, unless someone's in the truck with the brakes engaged, and then they're vulnerable to a broken line coming back.

Biggest concern I'd have with the forestry winch vs stump is that there could be higher forces and forestry winches are usually set up with a steel cable, which has a tendency to whip if it breaks under tension. The 3ph forestry winch does have a screen in back, but I don't know if it's got sufficient coverage to guard against the whip. You could put a synthetic on the forestry winch, but then you'd have to be more careful with it dragging, which happens when pulling logs... pulling a stump out is a short pull so it's easier to guard a synthetic line for that.

Synthetic lines barely stretch and typically just drop if broken, but adding weights on the line still can be done for insurance.

I anchored the truck from behind with a 30k strap to a solid tree so I wasn't concerned about movement; a previous attempt to use the A-frame just with the tractor pulling had poor results because R4 tires on damp ground kinda suck; best case without an anchor is you're going to mess up the ground at least a bit.

I think the biggest concern with broken lines in vehicle recovery tends to be because people don't slowly add load but instead try to yank. A chain that's placed under tension slowly will just drop if it breaks, but if you start with a loose chain and yank on it really hard and it breaks, much of the chain is already in motion and as such things do it's going to stay in motion until something stops it. Static recovery straps are safer than dynamic, though they're harder to use - the dynamic allow you to get some momentum on the puller and then the dynamic strap stretches and transfers a chunk of that momentum to the stuck vehicle, but then you've got a lot of energy stored in the strap from stretch plus you've literally given it some velocity (toward the pulling vehicle). With a static strap and tension slowly applied, there's very little energy stored from stretch and no appreciable velocity from the pull, so a break anywhere - tow hook, strap, tow shackle or hitch, stuff just drops.
 
   / Pulling tree out with wheel & chain? #52  
The HF moving blankets are lightweight. What I read elsewhere seems to favor those saddlebag looking winch dampeners that have a bit of weight to them. I don't know what the best safety option actually is, but welcome any discussion about this. I hate to think some bad accident could have been prevented if only someone had known to put something over the line or not yanked on it.
 
   / Pulling tree out with wheel & chain? #53  
The HF moving blankets are lightweight. What I read elsewhere seems to favor those saddlebag looking winch dampeners that have a bit of weight to them. I don't know what the best safety option actually is, but welcome any discussion about this. I hate to think some bad accident could have been prevented if only someone had known to put something over the line or not yanked on it.
For safety, synthetic winch line. Period. There is essentially no stored energy. It is not without issues, like abrasion, and friction issues.

Rigging is, I think, an opportunity to be smart, and also to be life threateningly stupid. e.g. Using snatch blocks can do wonders for improving anchors and redirecting possible trajectories for broken items. Snatch blocks also give you opportunities for improved application of forces, e.g. level pull to the winch, but up from the snatch block to an attachment higher on a tree. I see tons of "rigging 101" shortcomings and failures on YouTube. Please get to know your chain / rope / line / strap load limits and safe usage, and please don't use frayed items, or items with unknown to you histories. Dispose of items when they have gotten overloaded. Logging used to be one of the most dangerous occupations for a variety of reasons, but casual approaches to rigging was certainly part of it.

I have an aversion to band aids on safety items. I would not use blankets or saddle weights on lines. If you think that there is an issue with a pull, or how it is rigged, start over.

There are lots of resources and courses around, and for good reason. Many jobs require it as part of the description, though it isn't usually written into the "farmer" / "rancher" job description specifications, although I think it is good to know.

There are free sources out there, e.g.

YMMV...

All the best,

Peter
 
   / Pulling tree out with wheel & chain? #54  
I was limited by the big rocks around the tree for foot placement. It did start at an angle, just not very much, but luckily it was enough.

I must say I'm tempted to put a winch on the tractor to be able to do this on parts of my land that aren't as accessible by the truck. I don't think you need a 12k winch for most trees when you've got the upward component, a 3500# would probably do it since the A-frame gives a good (if brief) 5x mechanical advantage (depending on angles). Definitely need to have the puller anchored though; a logging winch would be perfect with an A-frame...

... or you know what, some sort of a winch mount x anchor combo SSQA attachment would probably be ideal. I'm thinking of a heavy blade-like thing, maybe with deployable ripper shanks (for softer ground), that you set into the ground; the winch is also mounted on this, so there's actually no stress on the tractor proper (other than electrical - unless you use hydraulic winch) Arborist hobart. The winch action tries to drag the attachment forward, but the blade & rippers hold it steady.
I'm going to be pulling some rather large shrubs out of the ground this spring. Probably a half ton a piece. About 5' x 10' x 5' high. They're very overgrown and ugly.

I plan on saturating the ground and throwing a log chain around each one and pulling with 4WD Low. I've got a K2500. Does it make more sense to pull from the front tow hooks or the rear trailer hitch assembly?
 
   / Pulling tree out with wheel & chain?
  • Thread Starter
#55  
I'm going to be pulling some rather large shrubs out of the ground this spring. Probably a half ton a piece. About 5' x 10' x 5' high. They're very overgrown and ugly.

I plan on saturating the ground and throwing a log chain around each one and pulling with 4WD Low. I've got a K2500. Does it make more sense to pull from the front tow hooks or the rear trailer hitch assembly?

Assuming the chain goes down from the truck connection to the shrub, I'd say rear as the pull will increase rear tire ground force and thus rear tire traction (front traction may get compromised). Attaching to the front may end up reducing rear traction, though it similarly would likely increase front traction.

I've always used the rear trailer hitch for similar pulls on my truck, but then I didn't have a tow connection on the front till this past winter when I added a hitch to the front ('97 F350 had no oem tow hooks).
 
   / Pulling tree out with wheel & chain? #56  
I'm going to be pulling some rather large shrubs out of the ground this spring. Probably a half ton a piece. About 5' x 10' x 5' high. They're very overgrown and ugly.

I plan on saturating the ground and throwing a log chain around each one and pulling with 4WD Low. I've got a K2500. Does it make more sense to pull from the front tow hooks or the rear trailer hitch assembly?
Be VERY careful with that! Pull from the rear, if you must. Wrap a blanket around the chain. Do a search on this (or other) site for the damage (death) a broken/flying chain/hitch can do.

Personally, I'd find a different way to remove 'em (backhoe, excavator...).
 

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