farmalot
New member
Has anyone had a similar problem? It started well before this happened. After looking at this forum, I'm getting scared that somehow the fuel injector got messed up--thereby requiring a trip to the shop. Any help is appreciated.
Pulled back throttle all of the way and now my DK45S won't start.
- Thread starter farmalot
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Katahdin
Platinum Member
The "throttle" is probably just a control cable that pulls/pushes on the injector pump throttle linkage. That end of the cable may have come loose and/or needs to be shortened.
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
If this tractor is still under warranty, call the dealer. If not and you want to troubleshoot, here's some thoughts.
It's way too soon to suspect a failed injection pump (IP). Your symptoms are different: most of the reported IP failures occurred after the engine was switched off with the key, which causes the stop solenoid to abruptly force the IP rack to the full off position. In your case, you pulled the hand throttle (I assume) full back and the engine quit. This allows the IP rack to move to its idle position under normal internal spring force so the IP should not have experienced any unusual stress.
At some point, you'll need to determine which type of IP control linkages your tractor has. Right below the IP on the engine block is a cover plate. On the old style the shaft for the manual stop lever passes through this plate and the stop solenoid operates the manual lever. On the new style the oil fill port is located on the cover plate and the stop solenoid is bolted to the front of the engine.
Another question: did you try to start it right after it died or did a minute or more elapse? If there was any time between shutdown and the restart attempt the glow plug voltage needs to be checked
I also assume the engine still cranks just fine when you turn the key to start.
If you are not mechanically inclined you probably need a pro or a friend with engine experience, preferably Diesel engines.
I recommend a systematic approach. First, I'd check the glow plug voltage and ensure the glow plugs get power with the key switch both in the preglow and crank positions. This requires a helper or long wires on your volt meter. Next, I'd check (and clean) the air filter to make sure it's not plugged up. Next, I'd check that the IP is receiving fuel from the lift pump. You should clean/replace the fuel filter if you haven't done that lately but wait until after you get the engine started; otherwise you'll need to bleed air from the fuel system and that may confound troubleshooting. Next, I'd ensure the stop solenoid is not holding the IP to the full-off position. With the old style, you can verify this visually. With the new style IP, you should be able to hear/feel the SS release the IP rack when you turn the key switch from off to preglow.
If all that checks out, you need to verify the IP is pumping fuel to the injectors. If you loosten one of the nuts that holds the metal pipes (the ones that go to the injectors) to the top of the IP and crank the engine with the key, you should observe a small pulse of fuel every second revolution of the engine. If you get a lot of fuel or no fuel you may have a problem with the IP.
If you have narrowed this to an IP problem, remove the cover plate below the IP and check if the rack pin moves freely or is jammed. With the new style, the pin should be to the left (a gap between the rack pin and governor lever) with the key in the off position but when the key is turned to the on/preglow position this pin should move to the right and touch the governor lever.
All this sounds like a lot of stuff but you are just checking to see if the engine is getting air and fuel.
One other comment, ignition switch failures are a common failure point on these tractors. They get dirty inside and the electrical contacts become unreliable. If your tractor didn't quit while you were using it, that would have been the first thing to check. But the above tests should also reveal a switch problem.
Finally, clean air and clean fuel are critical for Diesel engines so take great care not to get contaminants into the air or fuel downstream of the filters.
Hope this helps.
It's way too soon to suspect a failed injection pump (IP). Your symptoms are different: most of the reported IP failures occurred after the engine was switched off with the key, which causes the stop solenoid to abruptly force the IP rack to the full off position. In your case, you pulled the hand throttle (I assume) full back and the engine quit. This allows the IP rack to move to its idle position under normal internal spring force so the IP should not have experienced any unusual stress.
At some point, you'll need to determine which type of IP control linkages your tractor has. Right below the IP on the engine block is a cover plate. On the old style the shaft for the manual stop lever passes through this plate and the stop solenoid operates the manual lever. On the new style the oil fill port is located on the cover plate and the stop solenoid is bolted to the front of the engine.
Another question: did you try to start it right after it died or did a minute or more elapse? If there was any time between shutdown and the restart attempt the glow plug voltage needs to be checked
I also assume the engine still cranks just fine when you turn the key to start.
If you are not mechanically inclined you probably need a pro or a friend with engine experience, preferably Diesel engines.
I recommend a systematic approach. First, I'd check the glow plug voltage and ensure the glow plugs get power with the key switch both in the preglow and crank positions. This requires a helper or long wires on your volt meter. Next, I'd check (and clean) the air filter to make sure it's not plugged up. Next, I'd check that the IP is receiving fuel from the lift pump. You should clean/replace the fuel filter if you haven't done that lately but wait until after you get the engine started; otherwise you'll need to bleed air from the fuel system and that may confound troubleshooting. Next, I'd ensure the stop solenoid is not holding the IP to the full-off position. With the old style, you can verify this visually. With the new style IP, you should be able to hear/feel the SS release the IP rack when you turn the key switch from off to preglow.
If all that checks out, you need to verify the IP is pumping fuel to the injectors. If you loosten one of the nuts that holds the metal pipes (the ones that go to the injectors) to the top of the IP and crank the engine with the key, you should observe a small pulse of fuel every second revolution of the engine. If you get a lot of fuel or no fuel you may have a problem with the IP.
If you have narrowed this to an IP problem, remove the cover plate below the IP and check if the rack pin moves freely or is jammed. With the new style, the pin should be to the left (a gap between the rack pin and governor lever) with the key in the off position but when the key is turned to the on/preglow position this pin should move to the right and touch the governor lever.
All this sounds like a lot of stuff but you are just checking to see if the engine is getting air and fuel.
One other comment, ignition switch failures are a common failure point on these tractors. They get dirty inside and the electrical contacts become unreliable. If your tractor didn't quit while you were using it, that would have been the first thing to check. But the above tests should also reveal a switch problem.
Finally, clean air and clean fuel are critical for Diesel engines so take great care not to get contaminants into the air or fuel downstream of the filters.
Hope this helps.
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
Certainly worth checking but the IP should regulate to idle RPM with or without the cable connected. On my DK45S there is a little slack in both (hand and foot) throttle cables at idle.
rd_macgregor
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,874
- Location
- Prince Edward Island, Canada
- Tractor
- Kioti DK45SC, Kubota B2650
It doesn't sound like a throttle cable problem to me. In my 2006 DK45SC, there are two identical throttle cables, one to the foot throttle and one to the hand throttle. When the foot throttle cable in my tractor broke, the tractor just returned/stayed at idle. With some creative Dremel work and solder, I managed to fix the cable, but I bought a spare, just in case.
For sure check the cables first, but then start working through the diagnostics outlined above, starting with the easiest-to-reach things (!).
BOB
For sure check the cables first, but then start working through the diagnostics outlined above, starting with the easiest-to-reach things (!).
BOB
kco
Veteran Member
I had a similar experience a few times with my DK35 SE but it corrected itself each time. In my case the tractor would turn over but not start. It corrected if I turned the key completely OFF and then ON again. About the third time it dawned on me that when it failed to start I did not hear the familiar click of the stop solenoid opening before I cranked the engine. I suspect it was the tightness of the solenoid on the new tractor and it loosened up. It has not happened again in over a year and with 360 hrs on the tractor.
Here is a link to a thread discussing this issue:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/210208-kioti-hard-starting.html
When I had the incidents I contacted my dealer. He offered to immediately order a new solenoid. Instead we waited and it worked out OK.
Your problem seems more serious though as the tractor doesn't start. If you hear the click as you turn the key ON the solenoid is likely operating OK. If not, it could be the solenoid or the switch (as already mentioned by Ritcheyvs).
Good luck
Here is a link to a thread discussing this issue:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/210208-kioti-hard-starting.html
When I had the incidents I contacted my dealer. He offered to immediately order a new solenoid. Instead we waited and it worked out OK.
Your problem seems more serious though as the tractor doesn't start. If you hear the click as you turn the key ON the solenoid is likely operating OK. If not, it could be the solenoid or the switch (as already mentioned by Ritcheyvs).
Good luck