PTO Hydraulic Pump

/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #1  

EdKing

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2002
Messages
851
Location
South West Pa/Greene county
Tractor
Long/Landtrac360DTC
Hello all,
I have a backhoe on my tractor, operating with the tractor hydraulics. I have been told I could get better performance with a PTO pump. Anyone have any experience operating with/without a PTO pump on the backhoe ?

Ed King
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #2  
Ed
I have nothing to compare to because this is the only BH I have. Kubota 4672 BH on a Kubota b1700. I like the idea of having the BH completly separate from the tractor. This was to my advantage when I split one hydraulic line on the hoe. Bye the time I saw the fluid, about 3 gallons was on the ground, if it were using tractor hydraulics I might have been stuck in the woods. Another advantage is that the BH could be used on any other tractor without changing the other tractors hydraulics.
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #3  
Ed,

Rgarding erformance, if your backhoe has a stated GPM requirement, and your tractor hydraulics (after you take into account reduced flow after the 3ph, power beyond, valve body restrictions, etc), then your performance should meet or exceed the specs of the hoe.

If your GPM is less than the specs on the hoe, the speed (performance) of cyclinder travel will be slower, but no less powerful (breakout forces), given that your PSI is adequate. In this instance, adding the PTO pump will mprove speed, but only if the PTO pump meets or exceed the GPM requirement of the hoe.

One possibility is that you increase the speed of the cylinders to the point that you cannot effectively control the hoe (swing past your intended object, jerking up from the ground when the rock frees up, sending a shower of dirt all around). This can really be an adverse factor on performance, though you could put restrictors in the valves to slow the fluid down (back to a lower GPM, eliminating the "benefit" of the PTO pump).

My advice is, if the hoe is working reasonably well, "improving" it may not actually be better. If the hoe is oversized for the hydraulic pump, it may be oversized for the tractor as well, but an external pump could generate the flow you need. The real benefit of an external pump is to separate the flow of fluid from the tractor, either to prevent getting stranded, or more importantly, to eliminate the possibility of contaminating the tractor hydraluics when dirt from the hole is sucked into the ruptured line. We all know the worst enemy of long life to hydraulics is dirt!!
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #4  
Also keep in mind that you will need to add a fluid tank and filter in addition to the pump.

Unless you need more fluid flow, which translates into more BH speed (not power), then I'd stick with the hydraulics as they are.
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump
  • Thread Starter
#5  
After reading the responses, I'm wondering if the pressure isn't low on my hydraulics. The speed of the hoe is fine, it just seems to lack a little in the power department. I think I'll check with my dealer and see if they can check the pressure out of my rear outputs.

Thanks for all the replies.

Ed King
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Well, I went to the dealer today and had them check the pressure and flow. 2200 psi and 12 gpm at 2700 rpms. I guess I was just expecting a little more power than the backhoe would provide. The only other hoe I've operated was a JD TLB. I guess you don't get that kind of performance of a tractor mounted unit.

Ed King
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #7  
The power is all based on PSI, cyinder size, and the geometry of the hoe. Although there is no hard correlation between 3PH mounts and hoe power, smaller hoes do tend to be lower power, and 3PH hoes tend to be on the small to medium size.

Do you have any specs on your hoe? It's not a brand I'm familiar with. If you have numbers, we could compare with some of the bigger brand 3PH hoes to see if there is a noticable difference.
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump
  • Thread Starter
#8  
The backhoe is a Long 4008, the specs are attached.
 

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/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #9  
It's digging depth is the same as my Kubota 4690 and the same as a woods 7500. The digging force is also essentially the same.
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Can you lift the back of the tractor up with it or push/pull the tractor back and foward ? It seems I have the most power with the bucket curl. The boom up and down seem a little weak to me. It also seems I can move the tractor sideways easier than front to back. I guess thats just the nature of the beast.
BTW, my tractor (Long Agribusiness Landtrac 360) weighs in at about 5000 lbs with loader, backhoe, and loaded tires.

Thanks for the feedback,

Ed King
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #11  
I have a K4690 on my L2650 with the PTO pump. It moves the tractor around plenty easy.. At times (hang a large root) would like more power, but then would be picking the tractor up... I usually run the tractor at 1800 rpm while using the hoe, seems to give the best control and the speed and power are fine...
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump
  • Thread Starter
#12  
How much does your tractor weigh ? I guess I'm trying to figure out if my hoe is average, or on the light side .

Thanks in advance

Ed King
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #13  
Ed, you only needed to look on your literature to see that the pump that comes with them is less than 1/2 of what your tractor has. By confirming your tractor is right at the hydraulic outlets you should have more than enough to properly run your backhoe.
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Art,
I was going to get an after market pump from Northern Tools. The pump I was looking at was about 11gpm, and even with tank and fittings, about $250 cheaper than the OEM pump.

Thanks for the feed back

Ed King
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #15  
My tractor weights about 4000lbs with the loader and BH, and yes, I can drag is around if I try. It sounds to me like everything is working fine. These are comparatively small hoes with limited power. They do great work, but it takes time.

From what you've said I don't think an external pump will change anything. Your tractor puts out enough pressure which is what will give you all the power. A 3PH pump won't give you more. Your tractor also produces more flow that needed, so an 11 GPM PTO pump won't make the hoe faster either.
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Thats pretty much the same conclusion I came to after checking the pressure and flow rate of my hydraulics, and reading all the feedback here. Thanks for all the help, this place is great as a source for information and advice.

Ed King
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #17  
ED, base tractor weights 2600-3000# with loader and backhoe 4500-4800#. This lets the standard 16 foot trailer carry it and some supplies or other at one time...
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Thank's for the feedback. I guess I was jus expecting a little more performance than a smaller backhoe will provide. The hoe digs okay, just not as much omph as I expected. I'm thinking maybe a smaller bucket (I have a 16") might improve it as well.

Ed King
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump #19  
ED, it digs great. The worst thing is when you catch a root, can lift up the front end of the tractor... It suprises me how strong a root can be... But then again a small stump can stop a bulldozer..... Trees are just real tough unless you can get some leverage...
 
/ PTO Hydraulic Pump
  • Thread Starter
#20  
Hello,
I found the easiest way to cut roots is I get one of the teeth right up against the edge of the root, and i curl the bucket to split the root. Usually after a few splits I can break the root and pull it out of the way. I have removed 4 inch roots this way.

Thanks for the feedback

Ed King
 
 

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