PTO Capstan Winch (from scratch)

[k0ua]

Well, I am impressed. Not only works, it looks better than many "factory" implements. :thumbsup:

 

[flingwing1969]

When I worked at a machine shop, we took a six inch diameter piece of round stock, about 8 inches long and cut a radii on a lathe making what you have, except mine was a curved surface rather than flat. Cut an old pto shaft end down and then slid it into a hole drilled into the end using a press fit, and then welded it in place. I used my pto winch to raise and lower a weight to drive pipes for a water well.
I will have to locate it and take a picture for posting.
David from jax

Interesting. You run it at full PTO speed?

 

[coldsteelva]

I believe he said he runs at idle and doesn't feel he needs any more than that.

 

[Rustyiron]

So I log maybe a dozen trees a year, and due to living on horribly rocky property.........

Thanks for posting :thumbsup: Very nice!

 

[flingwing1969]

I believe he said he runs at idle and doesn't feel he needs any more than that.

Ah, that's right, the OP did say that. So, with a 4:1 reduction the axles are really spinning pretty slowly, depending on the speed of his PTO at idle. Thanks for the reminder on that. I was talking about Sandman's post on his PTO winch though. I don't think he mentioned using a reduction gear box.

 

[MossRoad]

Yeah, I looked at them but didn't find any that would work for me. The 3:1 reduction is rated at only 13 hp input and my PTO is 31 hp. MossRoad only has 20 hp at his PTO. There are some others out there though that are worth tracking down.

I don't have a PTO. My machine is entirely hydraulic.

I have 8GPM @ 2500PSI, though. Works out to something like 11.6HP.

 

[flingwing1969]

Ah, good info. I missed that, guess when I saw your post about "diving for the PTO switch" it was mechanical. You still have a PTO, just one hydraulically driven as opposed to engine driven, or is your setup similar to the Skid Winch?

I would run mine with my geared PTO, of course, although I have about the same GPM as you have through my rear remotes. I will have to do some figuring on RPM at an idle with my PTO to get proper sizing of the gear box - I have 31 hp at the PTO. Using the hydraulics would let me use the gearbox from SC, of course.

 

[MossRoad]

You've got me confused with the original poster.... diving for the PTO is in the very first post.

My machine has no PTO at all. No shafts. All hydraulic. All powered implements are hydraulic. If I ever get a winch, it will have to be hydraulically powered.

 

[sandman2234]

Interesting. You run it at full PTO speed?

Yes, but not at "full pto speed, but rather as slow as the tractor will idle. I also only did a single wrap around the wheel because I needed to be able to release it to get the weight to drop. Was a little bit hard on ropes but it worked.

Flingwing1969,
Have you considered an old bush hog gear box? They typically have a reduction built in, are rated at a pretty good HP, and are available on the used market. (I have several out back, if you want to come to Jax). You might need to run corn grease in them rather than oil if you are turning them on their sides. A spline tooth can be purchased to fit and you can weld that to a capstan.
David from jax

 

[iointerrupt]

flingwing1969 - Thanks. Rope guides were actually on my todo list, but got cut from Winch 1.0 because I was desperate to see it in action. May revisit them in the future. The

Composite Polyester certainly does look interesting as well. Admittedly all the rope I've been testing with has been cheap rope, but the winch is so tough on all of it, I don't think I could stomach running really nice $300 rope through it.

Stimw - I've considered turning up some aluminum rings and welding them on to increase the flange size, haven't gotten desperate enough yet though. Especially if I end up redoing the drums in steel.


Gearbox ratings are something that I spent awhile pondering with this project. Tractor gearboxes, like snow blower and brush hog gear boxes, are rather small, almost hand-held things. And yet they are rated for 20-40HP. If you go look at industrial gearboxes, a 40HP gearbox is this 200lb beast costing thousands of dollars. I never could quite square the two.

 

[Bigrackslayer]

Awesome build and great write up thank you for posting. I want one!! Lol

 

[flingwing1969]

Yes, but not at "full pto speed, but rather as slow as the tractor will idle. I also only did a single wrap around the wheel because I needed to be able to release it to get the weight to drop. Was a little bit hard on ropes but it worked.

Flingwing1969,
Have you considered an old bush hog gear box? They typically have a reduction built in, are rated at a pretty good HP, and are available on the used market. (I have several out back, if you want to come to Jax). You might need to run corn grease in them rather than oil if you are turning them on their sides. A spline tooth can be purchased to fit and you can weld that to a capstan.
David from jax

Ah, good idea there. They should handle quite a bit of HP and will already have a splined PTO fitting on it. They are 90 degree so maybe on its side would be the way to go. The ones I've seen actually run the speed up, in the neighborhood of 1:1.5 (or so) but they are available new from Surplus Center for around $130 plus shipping. Thanks for the offer. While my front driveway (yes, there is a driveway under there) tells me "Yes, you can go to JAX." I don't think I'll take you up on it right now.



I've been looking for a box similar to the one you used with the two output shafts but a single shaft is also okay. They seem to be out there, somewhere. I can order direct from China and they are inexpensive, but they want minimum orders of ten (at least on my quick non-in-depth check). I'll keep looking.

 

[flingwing1969]

You've got me confused with the original poster.... diving for the PTO is in the very first post.

My machine has no PTO at all. No shafts. All hydraulic. All powered implements are hydraulic. If I ever get a winch, it will have to be hydraulically powered.

You are right, I did. I've seen your posts so often they have become familiar. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[flingwing1969]

flingwing1969 - Composite Polyester certainly does look interesting as well. Admittedly all the rope I've been testing with has been cheap rope, but the winch is so tough on all of it, I don't think I could stomach running really nice $300 rope through it.
/QUOTE]

I had a friend suggest retired rock-climbing rope - they recommend replacing it every five years for dynamic rope (too stretchy for this though), and every ten years for static rope. I have not found a supplier for retired rope though, maybe a climbing school would know. I have about 300' remaining of a thousand feet of static rope that I used as a rescue rope when I had to inspect and video/photograph about an eight of a mile of 30" water pipe while lying on my back on a creeper. Used it for all kinds of projects over the years. That should serve me.

So, the capstan that is rough on the rope? I don't think I'd want more than one layer on the capstan due to binding issues - maybe a longer shaft would give more flexibility for number of wraps too.

How much do you think the pull on the capstan is damaging the gearbox's capstan shaft. That looks like a lot of pull on the shaft - a different sort of loading than the designer intended the original box to take. I wonder if one might design an end support for the shaft to increase longevity - maybe make the shaft extend through the capstan so a pillow-block bearing on a hinged fitting could swing down onto it and reduce the torque load on it. Maybe I'm overthinking this though - the capstan is pretty short so the loading shouldn't be too bad on the stout shaft.

 

[flingwing1969]

flingwing1969 - Maybe I'm overthinking this though - the capstan is pretty short so the loading shouldn't be too bad on the stout shaft.

Your gearbox is obviously very stout and would take a lot of lateral torque but many that I'm finding available are a bit more delicate looking is why I ask.

 

[flingwing1969]

Sandman. Here is a $16 "rope keeper" that is used on the portable winch. Easy to make but for $16, it's almost a "why bother". Portable Winch Co. 1-3 Rope Keeper for PCW5 Winch - 635793, Logging Tools & Racks at Sportsman's Guide

 

[flingwing1969]

In case anyone is interested, I found a video recently posted by a TBNer who is using his portable capstan winch. It starts at about 7:50 in this video. URBAN LOGGING, HOW TO HARVEST TIMBER WITHOUT BIG EXPENSIVE MACHINERY - YouTube

 

[sandman2234]

Ah, good idea there. They should handle quite a bit of HP and will already have a splined PTO fitting on it. They are 90 degree so maybe on its side would be the way to go. The ones I've seen actually run the speed up, in the neighborhood of 1:1.5 (or so) but they are available new from Surplus Center for around $130 plus shipping. Thanks for the offer. While my front driveway (yes, there is a driveway under there) tells me "Yes, you can go to JAX." I don't think I'll take you up on it right now.

View attachment 542828

I've been looking for a box similar to the one you used with the two output shafts but a single shaft is also okay. They seem to be out there, somewhere. I can order direct from China and they are inexpensive, but they want minimum orders of ten (at least on my quick non-in-depth check). I'll keep looking.

You are only about 180 miles from my Sister in Kelseyville, kind of amazing at the differences in weather.
I actually have at least one of the gearboxes similar to the original posters, and a couple of the single output. I acquired them from back when I worked at a machine shop that did a lot of work for a can plant.
Another method, although not as good if you want multiple outputs, is the main gear box on a multi-spindle bush hog. My Bush Hog 3008 center gearbox might be a good choice, or if angle doesn't matter, then a batwing main gearbox that splits off into 3.
David from jax

 

[flingwing1969]

Thanks. Did your sister get hit in the fires this autumn? They hit pretty hard in Lake county.

 

[sandman2234]

Thanks. Did your sister get hit in the fires this autumn? They hit pretty hard in Lake county.

Got run out of their house, but came back with no serious damage. You are correct, it was a mess for everyone close to those fires!
David from jax