PT1418 won't start!

[davesisk]

PT1418 won\'t start!

OK, you guys know mine is 12 years old (2 year old engine) and wasn't maintained that well in the past. Well, I'm still playing catch-up.

Started to do some digging last night, but the thing wouldn't start. I got out the battery tester and checked the batt, 12 volts w/ no load, 9 volts w/ load. Looks like a failing battery, so I went and got a new one (450 cranking amps) and put it in.

Actually, I plugged the cables up first, and turned the key, and the engine turned over. I said "cool". So, I wedged the battery back down into it's spot (which is a challenge because the back of the frame is bent in about a 1/2", so it's a tight fit to get it in there). I then hooked the terminals back up, turned the key...nothing! WTF?

So, I apparently have a problem other than the battery. Best guesses:

1) Key switch is worn-out? (It does occasionally stick in start position.)
2) Kill solenoid is frozen in kill position?
3) Wiring problem (a short maybe)?
4) Starter is stuck?

Any suggestions about where to troubleshoot? Any hints appreciated!

Regards,
Dave

 

[davesisk]

Re: PT1418 won\'t start!

Oh btw, for the folks just finding this group, my 1418 has the gasoline powered 18HP Briggs engine...

 

[davesisk]

Re: PT1418 won\'t start!

Well, I just called the factory about this cranking problem, and Don told me that there's a kill switch connected to the treadle. If the treadle isn't centered, then it won't crank. Since the treadle on mine has some wear and is loose and sloppy, I'll bet that's my issue. I'll find out when I get home tonight.

Don is amazing. I have a nut missing off the ball joint that connects the cable from the treadle to the lever on the pump. Don knew the thread size on that nut without even having to look it up. I'm impressed with those folks (and I didn't even buy mine from them!)

Dave

 

[davesisk]

Re: PT1418 won\'t start! - Update

Well, I got home and checked the kill switch on the treadle. Even holding the kill switch in, I still couldn't get the engine to turn over. I did notice that, with the hood open, I could hear a very faint click when I turned the ignition to the start position. So, I grabbed the extra portable battery and hooked it in parallel with the new battery installed in the engine bay. It cranked right up. I shut it off and disconnected the extra battery, and it still started right up again, several times in fact. WTF? Anyone got any ideas? Was the starter stuck or something?

Now that it's starting again, I've still got to get the engine running right again. It's still doing the surge/cutoff/surge/cutoff deal. At idle, it almost stops. At higher throttle you can tell it's surging, and that there's a loss of power. I've added some "dry gas" stuff to the gas tank, and that didn't seem to help. I've checked the air filter, and it looks pretty clean. I've noticed that it does the same thing when it's about to run out of gas (I guess the gas sloshes around in the tank, and sometimes it gets plenty, sometimes not, when it's almost empty), so I'm really thinking that maybe there something amiss with the fuel delivery system.

Dave

 

[MossRoad]

Re: PT1418 won\'t start! - Update

Check the fuel filter.

Pull the fuel line from the carb and see if you have flow. If you do, I'd look at the carb next.

Check the choke to make sure the butterfly is functioning.

Spray the linkages with gumout(be sure to cover any painted areas). I once found a small piece of a leaf stuck in the automatic choke that caused similar problems.

As for the stating problem, check the battery cables on both ends. The ground cable where it meets the frame is the usual culprit.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: PT1418 won\'t start! - Update

Dave:
Re; Electrical problem, I agree w/ MossRoad about carefully checking grounds. The heavy wire from negative battery pole to to ground lug on the engine may need the ends cleaned. A second possible problem may be the starter solenoid. Sometimes the click you hear is the solenoid pulling in, but the contacts aren't closing well enough to put power to the windings. I don't know what kind of solenoid your engine has. I don't think you can get into many of them these days and clean up the contacts, so replacement is required. I can't tell you why jumpering another battery to it gets it going if the problem is internal solenoid contacts, but I've seen them act that way a number of times, and used to be able to fix it on old Chev starters by polishing the contact disk and poles in the solenoid.
I don't know how similar your engine is, but on a 16HP Cub Cadet w/ the Briggs, the carburetor was pretty simple. Any Briggs dealer sells carb kits for very little money. I rebuilt the Cub carb in about an hour, disassembling, soaking the parts, in a quart of carb cleaner, and reassembling. After the carb cleaner, I blew out the passages with compressed air, before reassembly. It actually cured the problems at the time.
Short of rebuild, on mine there was an external plug low on the carb body. It allowed access to the main jet, which clogs if left to sit for a period of time. you can take it out and clean it, or even use a piece of stiff wire to clean it. Mine got completely plugged once, but would run, after a fashion. That time, the first, I looked in with a flashlight and didn't realize at first that I was looking at a jet. It had a smooth shiny varnish cover.
Sometimes fuel additives dislodge varnish clumps from somewhere else and hit the jet. (My own experience, backed by no scientific investigation, is that Esso, now Exxon, regular will deposit red glop in sufficient quantities to cause the symptoms you describe, if fuel is left in the carb over a winter. Other brands have been better for me.)
Of course, having said all that, it will probably turn out to be an ignition module problem, but that's part of the fun of playing with engines -- right?

 

[davesisk]

Re: PT1418 won\'t start! - Update

MossRoad: Check the choke to make sure the butterfly is functioning.

How do I do this?

Dave

 

[davesisk]

Re: PT1418 won\'t start! - Update

Alright, I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall here! After work today, I got out there and started experimenting. I took the air filter completely off with the engine running to see if that made any difference (even though the filter looked pretty clean), and the answer was: no difference.

So, I took the gas hose loose just in front of the fuel filter near the engine to see if there was a blockage in the hose. Gas poured out just fine. I took the filter off, and held it up to the light, and I could see through the wire mesh. Looked fine, no blockage that I could see. So, I put it back on.

There's a valve underneath the tank that the hose connects to, and I'd assume this allows you to shut the fuel flow off, but for the life of me, I couldn't detect what position was off. There are no markings that I can see, and regardless of what position I put it in (looking at the tractor from the left side with the hood up [ mine opens toward the back by the way, I think it was switched], I tried 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, 9 o'clock, and 12 o'clock, and none of them seemed to shut the flow off). When I turned the valve and lowered the hood, fuel still flowed.

Anyway, I kept messing with it until it started acting up worse. The engine would turn over, but wouldn't start. I was just going to experiment with the valve more to see if maybe I had indeed turned the fuel flow off, but then, guess what? It went back to the state where the engine wouldn't even turn over (the same issue that I started this thread with!) I tried hooking the jumper battery into parallel again, but I couldn't get the engine to turn over. Out of frustration, I decided it was time to wash my hands and have a Margarita.

This is really frustrating. Any suggestions? Is there anyone good at working on the Briggs engines around Raleigh, NC? And do they make house calls?

My father-in-law used to have a boat that leaked all the time, and was always breaking down. He called it "the damned ole boat". My wife has started calling the PT the "damned old tractor"...<g>.

Dave

 

[king_black_shoes]

Re: PT1418 won\'t start! - Update

Hey Dave, I agree with Charlie that something may have gotten through your fuel filter and into the carb or fuel pump (if you have one). The first week I owned mine some thick dark goo got into fuel. The govenor on my Robin engine was surging like you describe, worst at low rpm but not great on high either. Running on half choke smoothed things out I think because it increased the amount of fuel to air. I removed and cleaned the gas tank and fuel lines and replaced the fuel filter. No improvement. I finally dismantled the fuel pump and carb and the goo had gotten into the fuel jet that feeds to both the idle and run jets. I cleaned everything out and put it back together and it's been perfect ever since. Like Charlie said, small carbs aren't that difficult to clean. I was greatly helped by the parts diagram and the shop manuel but if you're careful not to rip the gaskets and you organize the parts in an egg box or something you may get to the bottom of things. I could only guess on the electrical problem but I think you were on the right track when you used the volt-ohm meter. That click may be the solenoid but it might also be a kill solenoid in your carb. if your Briggs has one. Hearing that open is a good thing. A wiring diagram would help you too. Good luck and I hope you get back to your patio (weren't you building a patio?) Tom

 

[king_black_shoes]

Re: PT1418 won\'t start! - Update

Oh and one other thing Dave. I've accidentally bumped my PTO switch on with the engine off. Mine won't turn over if the PTO switch is on. Tom