Protecting Property Lines

kbarrett · Mar 26, 2002

I was cruising the property the other day (border patrol) and recognized these little 6" high green flags all over that said RAIN BIRD on them.

It didn're really faze me until I saw the same flags at the business I work at and noticed that it marked a sprinkler head.

Hmmmm.... I went back to my property and noticed that the flags were clearly about 10 feet over the line on my property. Though, no sprinkler heads yet....

I really didn't think much of it, until I mentioned this to my father. Hey, if the neighbor wants to water my field grass and weeds that's fine. Hey said, no it's not and suggested that I pluck those little flags out ASAP. He said that if a property is maintained by an adjacent property owner for an extended time it might be subject to adverse possession. Hmmmm....

So, this afternoon at lunch I removed all the little flags marking future irrigation heads and also painted the pipe that marks the line in a bright yellow color.

I'm a little perplexed about this. I had a conversation with this neighbor last year and point blank asked him "Do you know where the property line is?" He said that he did and I thought all was well. Needless to say, I'll be diligently performing border patrol duty with the mower this year.

Any of you have similar situations come up?

TerryinMD · Mar 26, 2002

There have been many a good post covering this subject and most have appeared under this topic. Do a search under adverse possession and I bet you'll get a few hits.

Terry

gws · Mar 26, 2002

Your neighbor may know where the line is but apparently the guys putting in the pipes dont.

I never could see the purpose to ever water grass. Seems to me to be a big waste. My yard is as natural looking as it can be. Green in the spring, brown in the summer, and white in the winter. What more could you want.

kbarrett · Mar 26, 2002

Thanks... There is quite a bit.

mdbarb · Mar 26, 2002

I am knee deep in this kind of problem right now.
In California, the lawyers tell me he cannot get your property thru adverse posseion unless he has been paying taxex on it. He can get prescriptive easement rights if he has beeen using it in an open and notorious manner for five continious years.
Be ever vigilant with the border guard and set your neighbor straight (officially) right away!
Good Luck

heehaw · Mar 26, 2002

i have a friend that has a pretty good size farm here in Arkansas, the farm next door was for sale, he got a letter from a lawyer, asking if he had any claim on the land adjacent to him. of course his reply was no, and he and his wife signed the paper and returned it to the lawyer.. then later he got anther letter from the lawyer, according to the survey the fence was over the property line, and he had 6 months to move it, at the end of 6 months the fence would be dozed down and the new owners did not want his cattle on their property. guess what he's doing now..building a lot of fence. the fence had been there for over 30 years, but since he said he had no claim to the land, he gave up any adverse possession etc etc..and now has to build a new fence.
heehaw

beenthere · Mar 26, 2002

Rather than wait until you can mow along your property line, how about putting in your own stakes and some tape, string, rope or wire along the line. This might avoid any paid crew showing up with ditch diggers and pipe, laying in a bunch of stuff thinking they are on the right property. If your neighbor asks, then an explanation of the newly found markers on your side would be easy to discuss. I wouldn't want to escalate any differences with any neighbor if it can easily be avoided. Friendly neighbors are great assests in so many ways.

kbarrett · Mar 26, 2002

Yeah, he's a pretty good guy and I'm interested in keeping peace, but at the same time being clear. I did make a call to a surveyor this afternoon regarding the re-marking of the borders of my property etc. Essentially, being clear with new markers where his poperty ends.

My father thought that a crew showing up with all their equipment in a very visible way, might help communicate my point.

MarkV · Mar 26, 2002

My father-in –law is a firm believer that “Good fences make good neighbors”. Makes a lot of sense to me.

MarkV

Anonymous Poster · Mar 26, 2002

...but since he said he had no claim to the land...

Rick... Your friend and his wife indicated "outside" the fenced area was not his...

...the fence had been there for over 30 years...

...if your friend had openly, maintained, mowed, repaired... etc. etc. the fenced in area for the past thirty years... he may very well have an excellent claim of adverse possession without realizing it... /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

rancar · Mar 27, 2002

Kevin,

He said, no it's not and suggested that I pluck those little flags out ASAP. He said that if a property is maintained by an adjacent property owner for an extended time it might be subject to adverse possession.

Read my post about easement by adverse possession under Dan McCarty's thread on Trespassers and Cable Gates. Do rip those flags out like your father suggested and rip them out every time you see them again.

I've had some similar experiences but with adjoining property owners who decide they want to post their property by walking over the property line onto my property by 10-15 feet and then they nail their posted signs into my timber trees...they didn't want to nail into their own. Isn't this brazen? Needless to say, I tore them all down.

Bob

BrianC · Mar 27, 2002

Had a similar situation too. While taking the kids for a hay ride I saw where someone had dug on my property. I went back and dug it up and found my neighbor had just buried some construction debris.

In looking around further I found some of my property stakes missing.

I did confront the guy and asked if he know what he had done. He THOUGHT the property line was further up.

Some people have a lot of brass.

Brian

heehaw · Mar 27, 2002

several years ago my daughters and i were walking around my folks place, in the middle of july or august, it was hot and dry. when we got over to the side, we hit mud??? come to find out, the neighbor had trouble with his septic system, so he put a drain from his sink, tubs, and washer over on my dads place. at least thats all he said he put over there?? i had to get the state health dept out there and then to write him a letter to get him to get it off. these are just some of the reasons i don't trust people.
heehaw

wasabi · Mar 27, 2002

Heehaw...my two cents is trust you neighbors, but post and fence your property lines. I just put in three major industrial forest service-type pipe gates to try and deter the hunters and four-wheelers. [censored] if someone didn't try to haul one of the gates out of the ground with a tow strap (bent it a little). Next thing we know the $25 lock has been mangled by a bolt cutter or some such. They clearly want in when we're not there!, signs, gates or whatever....Now that is brass. Now, we're putting up signs telling them to "smile, you're on security camera"

kbarrett · Mar 27, 2002

Got some differing info from my banker regarding adverse possession (at least here in Michigan). He said that it is no longer an issue. He admitted that he recently tried to adversely possess some property that he had a fence on for a number of years. (What's this say about my banker???)

Anyway, He mentioned that he ended up having to remove the fence because his case would not hold up under current Michigan law.

Regardless, it still is an issue with me. The old saying goes, "Give em' an inch and they'll take you a mile everytime." I'm not going to compromise on this.

Somewhat related....but a twist on this...

I now know that my neighbor has an ATV, and I've seen evidence that he's been riding it on my property /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif. I'm not opposed to ATVs Per Se' but I believe I now might be
dealing with a potential liability issue.

What if he hits a tree on my property and hurts himself?
I understand that this is probably a better question to ask an attorney, but it's got me thinking....

pennwalk · Mar 27, 2002

Adverse Possession is pure bull. Your property ought to be your property with out question. Grabbing someones land is wrong. I'm sorry the law is screwed up on this one.

Chris

Anonymous Poster · Mar 27, 2002

Here is a link to <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.law.utexas.edu/dawson/recreate/recreate.htm>Recreational Use Statutes in your state</A>. These limit the owner's liability in the kind of case you're talking about.

This is not legal advice, just information.

Egon · Mar 27, 2002

Re: Liability

Shouldn't it work both ways? how much damage to your tree and the time you have devoted.

Egon

rancar · Mar 27, 2002

Kevin,

Got some differing info from my banker regarding adverse possession (at least here in Michigan). He said that it is no longer an issue. He admitted that he recently tried to adversely possess some property that he had a fence on for a number of years. (What's this say about my banker???)...his case would not hold up under current Michigan law.

Consult with a good attorney, not a banker who evidently has self-serving interests in mind.

I now know that my neighbor has an ATV, and I've seen evidence that he's been riding it on my property . I'm not opposed to ATVs Per Se' but I believe I now might be dealing with a potential liability issue.

I also have this problem...so far it's been one solitary ATV rider crossing the back forty. I thought of ways to try to catch him, but don't have time to do this and it happens sparingly. Liability is a concern. Here again, consult with a good attorney. I think if you post your property, then you're covered provided you don't give him or anyone else permission to cross your property by ATV.

Regards,
Bob Ancar
Cambridge, NY

Golfgar4 · Mar 27, 2002

Just a suggestion to help CYA. When you post your various signs, take a picture of the sign with a camera that stamps the date right on the photo. That way, when the guilty party takes down your signs and claims it wasn't posted, you've got proof that you had done it. We've had to do that a number of times as a result of violations in our City Parks. Our Parks Director has learned to always take pictures of new and/or replacement signs that are erected. It helps prove that you were not negligent.