Proposed Easement Advice (Long)

   / Proposed Easement Advice (Long) #21  
ultrarunner said:
Yesterday the developer called and said he would like to schedule a meeting with the entire family to explain the "No brainer", "Win-win" opportunity (the developers exact words) he is offering....

If it were me, I would not want the developer to meet with the entire family (don't even let them know who are the family members...) or even speak with the developer directly. Get a representative (real estate broker or attorney) to deal with him. Everything must be in writing. The last thing you want is the entire family to know this developer then he can stir things up and try to influence certain family member and play one against another. This happens all the time. Once the developer met with the family, he will find a target then wine & dine the target. Since everything is verbal, he can say anything he wants and get certain family member to lobby on his behalf. You know how it goes... Things can get urgly. IMO, it just not a wise move.
 
   / Proposed Easement Advice (Long)
  • Thread Starter
#22  
The Developer "Was in the area" checking on his property and stopped by to see Mom today. The result is she promised to let him make a family presentation.

Both of my brothers work full time in the Real Estate industry... one is an out of area commercial real estate portfolio manager and the other is a residential agent with 20 years experience.

The Portfolio Manager has no desire to meet the developer and feels the presentation is an effort to size-up the situation. Everyone has different feelings about the land but we all agree that it is Mom's decision... 100% and she has asked us to hear him out...
 
   / Proposed Easement Advice (Long) #23  
He wants to meet with the entire Family?

My first thought is ( and I have no idea how old you and your siblings are or your mom) is wave some nice pre-inheratence money and start the family squabble. This will make your mom upset, so she will sell just to appease one or some of her kids. Fighting over money can sure tear a family apart.

I just might be a cynical person, though. You need to have both your brothers come sit in on this meeting.

steve
 
   / Proposed Easement Advice (Long) #24  
I'd be very careful of this developer. He is only looking out for his own pocket here from what I have read. A Slick Willy comes to mind when I read about people like him. Should you decide to do anything with this guy, make sure it is in writing and in front of your lawyer, not his.
 
   / Proposed Easement Advice (Long)
  • Thread Starter
#25  
Keep the advice coming...

Mom is in her 70's and my brothers and I are in our 40's.

My parents raised us right Dad stressed that he was depending on us to take care of Mom before he passed away from cancer. We might have a difference in opinion on what would be best for Mom but not in wanting to make sure that she is protected.

I casually know the owner of a local survey company with a good reputation. Several years ago a different neighbor was having his corners marked and the surveyor and I had the opportunity to talk about the developer buying up all the land in the area. The surveyor said he had worked for the developer once and would never work for him again. When pressed he said the reason was philosophical and that he wanted to be able to sleep at night???

If "Anything" does come from the proposed meeting... We would definitely hire this surveyor as part of our team.
 
   / Proposed Easement Advice (Long) #26  
I just learned that the Developer has listed his 67 acre project for $8.5 mil

Think about this for a little while. If he listed it for $8.5M, he probably believes it is worth a little bit under that. Depending on how many lots he could potentially subdivide into, that is ~$60-120k per lot.

Now I live across the bay from you, but I believe that buildable lots are worth a quite a bit more than that. Check with a realtor (maybe a brother) but find out the true value of a buildable 1/2 to 1 acre lot. At best, an easement you sell would be worth the difference between the current value and the total value after subdivision. Just to pick a number out of the air, say 120 lots were worth $200k each, that would put the total value of the project at $24M, making your easment worth $15.5M. You probably won't get anywhere near that, but somewhere in the $4 to $5 M range might be possible.

Plus, there is the value of your mom's 5 acre parcel. If the road were to go down the middle of it, and if it were subdivided at the same time as the rest, you could get 4 to 8 additional lots on it.

Any way you slice it, there could be an awful lot of money involved here. I would think long and hard about striking the best deal I could now, before someone else gets a chance to pull a fast one on your mom. Plus, if there ever does get to be an emminent domain fight, your negotiations now could help to place a higher value on the 5 acres.

Developers are frequently short of up-front cash, and I would consider some kind of a barter arrangement. Sell him the 5 acres for an initial cash payment on the order of $1M, plus you get all the lots he puts on the 5 acres, and enough more to total up to maybe 20% of all the lots in the project, whatever that number comes out to be.

This way you get to control whether any of the property closest to your mom is immediately developed, you get to scatter the rest of the lots throughout the development, so he can't concentrate your holdings in the less desireable areas, and you have enough lots to be distributed among the family so that if some want immediate cash and some want investments you can accomodate all, with no hard feelings.

You need:

1. A lawyer to deal with the developer and make certain all agreements are ironclad, and

2. A tax accountant to help you structure a deal (maybe a 1031 exchange) so that you don't get hit with a huge tax bill which consumes all of the up-fron money.

Don't worry about him not telling you he listed it, and don't list your mom's property yet, talk to a lawyer first. He has no obligation to tell you anything, and he will probably conceal a lot at any "family meeting". Don't let your emotions get in the way.

I would hire a lawyer right away and have him at the family meeting. This has a number of effects, all of which are good for you. It lets the developer know that you are not going to be pushovers, and it gets a witness to all the developer says and does. (All lawyers are "officers of the court" and their testamony is given a lot higher weight than that of us ordinary folk. If it comes down to a "he said, she said" arguement, this will be very helpful to you.) You may also be able to tell him to deal with your lawyer exclusively and not to communicate with any individual family member in the future. This will cut down on the divide and create dissent tactics he may have up his sleeve.
 
   / Proposed Easement Advice (Long)
  • Thread Starter
#27  
Lots of good advice Dave and thank you for posting.

I would send you his listing if I knew how to do it. It looks impressive and the descriptions are even better.

Essentially his project requires bridging 2 creeks and extensive hillside work to make the road a reality on his existing land. The city, after several years of appeals, has said no to his road proposal through an existing park.

Earlier this year, a mutually adjoining parcel with street frontage* and approved plans for a single 5400 square feet home sold for 540k cash... which equates to 200k per acre.

The zoning density is varied, but mostly it requires 25,000 feet minimum and in practice, most existing homes in his zoning are on 1 acre lots with horse(s) allowed. (although almost none exist)
 
   / Proposed Easement Advice (Long) #28  
ultrarunner,

Do you think your mom will be happy in her older home surrounded by all new construction? Everybody is different, speaking strictly for myslef, if I owned 6 acres near the city parks etc. then boom I was in the middle of a brand new subdivision, I don't think I would enjoy living there any more.

Do to her age, would a nice condo make sense? idea- take mom out and visit a few condos and see how she feels about them.

Lat trip home for me I took my parents, had to twist their arm to do it, to visit some condos. Just to kind of set them up for the future, dad is 82 and mom is 78. Not that they were interested in buying a condo but they at least got out and looked at a few, kind of got their feet wet.

If your approach with your mom is, this is just sight seeing, let's go around and see what is out there, humor me mom... she might go with you.

She just might be surprised and so might you and your brothers. It doesn't hurt to look. I see my parents progression as being single family home, condo, assisted living... and I hope that is it. Strictly because of your moms age it wouldn't hurt to at least check out the condo market in your area.
 
   / Proposed Easement Advice (Long) #29  
rox said:
ultrarunner,

Do you think your mom will be happy in her older home surrounded by all new construction? Everybody is different, speaking strictly for myslef, if I owned 6 acres near the city parks etc. then boom I was in the middle of a brand new subdivision, I don't think I would enjoy living there any more.

From the description I don't think she would be "in the middle" of a new subdivision -- she would be on the edge of it, and it would be further up the road, away from town. Essentially the only change she would see is more traffic, unless she were to drive into the subdivision.

After thinking about this for a while, I have another possibility. Consider selling the developer an option to purchase the 5 acre parcel for the price I suggested before. Maybe with a 2-year limit, and he gets first right of refusal if she wants to sell to someone else during that time. After two years, the option expires, but she keeps the money he paid for it.

That way, if he can't get a permit, there is no change in her property, if he can, she wins big time financially.

The price of the option should be about twice what it would take to pay all the legal and consulting fees she would have and pay the taxes on the income. That way she gets some spending money for her trouble, and nothing happens if the developer fails.

PM me if you want to.
 
   / Proposed Easement Advice (Long) #30  
I agree with Dave and think the family needs to have some sort of outside professional at the meeting with the developer. Even though you have two brothers that are in the business an outside party lets the developer know the family will not be talked into an agreement without researching the value and consequences of a sale. I would also contact the developer in advance and tell him that if the intent of the meeting is to make some sort of proposal or offer concerning your Mothers property that he bring his proposition in writing so it may be reviewed by your Mothers advisers if she decides to consider it. If he does not want to put something in writing, which would not surprise me, just tell him that the family sees little purpose to a meeting then.

He wants to go fishing in my opinion to see what he can get for the least amount of money. I’ll bet that he will be looking for you to set a starting figure on whatever deal he proposes. Then he will proceed to tell you how unrealistic your figure is for a variety of reasons. I would want that starting figure to come from him and in writing. Then I would be the one saying how unrealistic his figure is.

MarkV
 

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