Property Value/Appraisals RANT

[sdkubota]

Here in Kentucky the public library, county health services and the school board can raise their portion of your property tax up to 4.5% a year just by saying so. They can raise it higher if they hold three public meetings to discuss it.
Guess what? Every year the school, health and library taxes go up by at least 4.5%. (By the way, we pay that not only on our property tax bill, those taxes are also on your electric bill, your telephone bill and again when you renew your vehicle license plates every year) School taxes alone make up over 50% of my tax bills.

The state auditor has raised some noise about this, calling them "unregulated tax bases", but I doubt if they ever do anything about it.

Schools in my county get 71.5% of the property taxes collected.

 

[GolfAddict]

Not to minimize your pain, but I would kill to get that property tax rate. The county (here in deep red Texas) just took $4214 on an assessed value of $216K.

But then you also don't have state income tax...

 

[kenmac]

Here in Kentucky the public library, county health services and the school board can raise their portion of your property tax up to 4.5% a year just by saying so. They can raise it higher if they hold three public meetings to discuss it.
Guess what? Every year the school, health and library taxes go up by at least 4.5%. (By the way, we pay that not only on our property tax bill, those taxes are also on your electric bill, your telephone bill and again when you renew your vehicle license plates every year) School taxes alone make up over 50% of my tax bills.

The state auditor has raised some noise about this, calling them "unregulated tax bases", but I doubt if they ever do anything about it.

Here school funding comes form a portion of the property tax. Can't raise property tax without a vote of the people.There is a lawsuit that was filed against the state by poor counties because, timber companies (in those counties) with large tracks of land hardly pay any taxes because, the land is un developed

 

[Gunny]

Just pulled one of my tax bills: State Property Tax 14% of the bill
County Property Tax 4% of the bill
School Property Tax 64% of the bill
Library Property Tax 11% of the bill
Health Property Tax 7% of the bill
State and county haven't raised their rates for the last four years, but the bottom three go up 4.5% ever year, just like clockwork. County PVA won't reduce assessed rates though, all property is still assessed at the same level or more as it was five years ago. I told him I'd sell him every piece of property I had in this county for 90% of his assessment, he turned me down

 

[dave1949]

This site, the Tax Foundation, has some good comparisons on state tax burdens. An individual's burdens can be skewed due to income level vs property value, making one state better than another for your particular situation, but this is a general picture. If you are looking for the state which matches your situation, this site would be useful.

Annual State-Local Tax Burden Ranking (2010) - New York Citizens Pay the Most, Alaska the Least | Tax Foundation

 

[newbury]

<snip>
Property values as you move closer into the Federal City of Washington, DC. skyrocket as do taxes. There is a lucrative job market in this area of Maryland, Virginia and DC. People elect to move to the outer fringes of suburbs to escape the high cost of property around DC.
One can find rural living at the fringes to offer more compelling reasons for being out there, inspite of the job.
<snip>

Yes, I did that trade off. In 1984 I moved farther south, from about 1 mile south of the DC Beltway to about 4 miles south. Decreasing my driving distance by 3 miles and time by maybe 5 minutes.

Throughout my 37 years of working at the same place I had made the decsion to be close to home and family. I walked my children to school on occasion and then walked to work. If I drove I could come in and leave whenever I wanted and still face the same 3.5 minute commute. I chose a house which required a lot of sweat equity, because my government salary couldn't easily afford constructon workers.

Most of my coworkers decided for bigger houses which they drove to well south of here. If they commuted to be at work by 0530 it was 45 minutes, if later it may take an hour, of if traffic was bad 2 hours.

There are downsides to living a mile from work -

I found myself responding to emergencies often. I was there when the call from the CIA came in because they had a problem mapping Bosnia. Resulted in the mapping for General Framework Agreement for Peace in Bosnia and Herzegovina also known as the Dayton Agreement, Dayton Accords, Paris Protocol or Dayton-Paris Agreement. Got several trips to Serbia.

The only shop on the way home from work was a 7-11. I could never complain about traffic. Many days I'd wake up at 0615 and get my first cup of coffee at work at 0630. Quick showers. I'd leave my desk at 1500 and be at home mowing by 1510.

They wouldn't let me telecommute.

Car never warmed up.

Always on call. Sort of the "let Mikey do it" syndrome.

Passed up promotions to work at the Pentagon or downtown.

My property was only 1/4 acre.

But compared to many of my coworkers I saved at least 5,000 if not 10,000 hours not commuting, never got stuck in a traffic jam since 1978, and (when not on travel) was always within a mile of my children. I'd fill up my little 1993 minivan about 3 times a year. Cars never wore out because of the commute.

Living within walking distance to work meant some sacrifices but was well worth it. However now that I'm retired I only save about 5 minutes and 2 miles on my car a day by not commuting.

 

[NorTracNY]

OUCH. Is all of New York like that? I always thought the rural parts did not have that burden of high costs.

I wish the family still had the duck farm on Long Island.

I am somewhat rural. Upstate has to pay for the city. We're only #2 in taxes.

 

[300UGUY]

This site, the Tax Foundation, has some good comparisons on state tax burdens. An individual's burdens can be skewed due to income level vs property value, making one state better than another for your particular situation, but this is a general picture. If you are looking for the state which matches your situation, this site would be useful.

Annual State-Local Tax Burden Ranking (2010) - New York Citizens Pay the Most, Alaska the Least | Tax Foundation

I think some of this is in flux right now. There have been a lot of changes to property tax rules that will come into effect this year, and our governor is trying to get a road tax thru now. (Michigan)

 

[dave1949]

I think some of this is in flux right now. There have been a lot of changes to property tax rules that will come into effect this year, and our governor is trying to get a road tax thru now. (Michigan)

True, it is always in flux. The home page of the site briefly discusses some of that. What is interesting is, for the majority of states, the overall tax burden is very similar. Close enough that taxes would not be a deciding factor in choosing where to live.

Currently in Maine, the Governor is pushing budgets that will ultimately move costs from the state to the local level. This shifts tax revenue from income to property, not the right direction for retired people on fixed incomes that enjoy rural living. And, there is no way our rural property tax revenues can support the number of rural residents who receive aid in one form or another.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've learned taxes will never be enough because there will always be things to spend it on.

Voters in some states have passed measures to limit taxes... the powers to be just get creative and find ways around it...

As to appraisals... even in a perfect world... it is only a guess or opinion of value...

Just like the Brokerage disclaimers... past performance isn't a guarantee of future performance.

When you think about it... appraisals are heavily weighted on sales.. and sold property is no longer on the market...

It's kind of like saying bacon sold for a dollar a pound last week and then trying to find anyone willing to sell for that price today...

On a personal note... I recently told my refi lender what they can do and am please to say they refunded all monies paid...

It really is too easy for the game to be manipulated... a typical borrower like myself will be presented rate, term and costs and if agreeable, will lock in the loan... then the lender drags their feet and comes back with unending requests for additional documentation.

A few days after the lock expires... I get a call saying good news... we have everything we need and we are ready to schedule the closing... only one slight problem... the lock on that great rate has expired and all we need from you is $3,000 to close the loan because rates/points have gone up...

 

[300UGUY]

True, it is always in flux. The home page of the site briefly discusses some of that. What is interesting is, for the majority of states, the overall tax burden is very similar. Close enough that taxes would not be a deciding factor in choosing where to live.

Currently in Maine, the Governor is pushing budgets that will ultimately move costs from the state to the local level. This shifts tax revenue from income to property, not the right direction for retired people on fixed incomes that enjoy rural living. And, there is no way our rural property tax revenues can support the number of rural residents who receive aid in one form or another.

What our governor has done is shift more tax burden from business to the public. Until this year, pensions were not taxed by the state. Now the state business tax has been eliminated, but we get to pay taxes on our pensions.

 

[Bladehauler]

Any way to start selling the timber to do the renovation?

+2 :thumbsup:

 

[MossflowerWoods]

There have been MANY great points made here in this thread, and there are clearly some strong feelings on some of these points.

I'm going to ask a slightly DIFFERENT question now.

Sticking to the 2010 Appriasal, and the 2013 appraisal only. CLEARLY the 2010 appraisal was wrongly inflated. AG zoned land has NOT dropped from $4,500 per acre to $3,000 in 29 months.

So... Do I have any recourse? Can I go to the Bank and point out they sold me an overinflated apraisal and both THEY and I are now left holding the bag on a turkey?

Is there anything I can do about the bad appraisal in 2010?

Thanks in advance,
David

PS - Just to be clear, I fully expect "caveot emptor"...

 

[MossflowerWoods]

I still have not recieved the appraisal nor the bill for $550.

I am still looking at all angle of approach to provide more space for my family. The wife and I have been iun discussion, but no long term plas have been made.

We are kicking the tires on the concept of "In 3 years dump EVERYTHING and move to Texas (or Tenn. or ???)."

In the mean time, I need to get building fence and run-in shed for the horses... And keep my job...

David

 

[dmccarty]

I'm going to ask a slightly DIFFERENT question now.

Sticking to the 2010 Appriasal, and the 2013 appraisal only. CLEARLY the 2010 appraisal was wrongly inflated. AG zoned land has NOT dropped from $4,500 per acre to $3,000 in 29 months.
...

Can you see the comparable property used in the appraisals? The 2010 appraisal may have had a property that drove up the numbers OR the 2013 appraisal is causing the problems.

How do the appraisals compare to your property tax valuations? It was interesting that our appraisal, which dropped dramatically in value, was still a bit over the tax valuation.

Later,
Dan

 

[murphy1244]

There have been MANY great points made here in this thread, and there are clearly some strong feelings on some of these points.

I'm going to ask a slightly DIFFERENT question now.

Sticking to the 2010 Appriasal, and the 2013 appraisal only. CLEARLY the 2010 appraisal was wrongly inflated. AG zoned land has NOT dropped from $4,500 per acre to $3,000 in 29 months.

So... Do I have any recourse? Can I go to the Bank and point out they sold me an overinflated apraisal and both THEY and I are now left holding the bag on a turkey?

Is there anything I can do about the bad appraisal in 2010?

Thanks in advance,
David

PS - Just to be clear, I fully expect "caveot emptor"...

Was it or not worth the price you paid for it??? A lot of property's value went down. My brother in Arizona house and land lost 45% of value. He ain't happy but he is not talking of dumping it.Matter of fact, the bank won't let him refi cause of loan to house value. Ain't that a kick in the pants for someone who didn't say, Screw it I'll live here for free till they kick us out.

 

[ultrarunner]

In my city.... older nieghborhoods lost a documented 80% of value peek.

In other words a 1200 square feet home from 1922 on a city lot dropped from 520k to 105k... values you would have to go back to the late 1980's.

Every block had multiple foreclosures... really hard hit and no one that bought between 2004 and 2008 is still around.

 

[300UGUY]

In my city.... older nieghborhoods lost a documented 80% of value peek.

In other words a 1200 square feet home from 1922 on a city lot dropped from 520k to 105k... values you would have to go back to the late 1980's.

Every block had multiple foreclosures... really hard hit and no one that bought between 2004 and 2008 is still around.

Same thing in some areas here. And because the jobs going away, they haven't recovered much. I really question a lot of folks ideas of valuation, in the long term. In the long run, housing values have to have some relation to household incomes. Thats why I question the development folks when they cheer the start of another little factory employing folks at $8 per hour. When the HR folks are making sure the employees have registered for food stamps, is this capitalism? These folks aren't buying 500K houses that my neighbor's are trying to sell. At some point, a house is worth some multiple of income. Or am I wrong?

 

[two_bit_score]

Same thing in some areas here. And because the jobs going away, they haven't recovered much. I really question a lot of folks ideas of valuation, in the long term. In the long run, housing values have to have some relation to household incomes. Thats why I question the development folks when they cheer the start of another little factory employing folks at $8 per hour. When the HR folks are making sure the employees have registered for food stamps, is this capitalism? These folks aren't buying 500K houses that my neighbor's are trying to sell. At some point, a house is worth some multiple of income. Or am I wrong?

I always thought a house was worth what a buyer would pay or it.

 

[kenmac]

We are kicking the tires on the concept of "In 3 years dump EVERYTHING and move to Texas (or Tenn. or ???)."
David

You are talking about putting more $ into something that isn't worth what you paid for it. If you put more $ into it ( I assume dump it means sell it) IMO, you are going to just loose more $$. I don't believe the housing market will recover in 3 yrs.