Property line on19.5 acres

[2458n]

How timely. I am doing this tomorrow with the neighbor to my north. 3 acres one line 1700.00 dollars. I am really really pissed. 30 years and no complaints now the trees are shading some 80 yard stretch of field. If I move to the farm I will have the same problem with a sheriff who has a tree stand in his back yard to hunt my property. Warning to all -get a survey when buying anything.

 

[aczlan]

I'm with trying to get my own line with the elevated post, laser ect tra. If you dont feel comfortable with your line, you dont have to build the fence without getting a surveyor. From what I have been told by several surveyors, is it isn't 100% accurate anyway, could be a foot off here and there. I know they can use GPS, but not in the woods for clear line of sight to the sky. (what my last surveyor told me)
In any case, I see some brush cutt'n being done!

Umm, most surveyors can get to within a few hundredths of a foot inn the woods without GPS. Yes, GPS can be faster in open areas, but it can be done without it (been there and done that as an intern working for a surveyor back before GPS was available).

Aaron Z

 

[GGB]

Tim, I'd get this done right from the start! I've read that some places in Kentucky still have boundary/ownership problems that started when Daniel Boone and Simon Kenton first began settling there. No fault of theirs, it's just the way things happened sometimes way back then.

Anyway, if I could afford 19 acres, I could sure afford to have it properly surveyed and make CERTAIN that I really owned the amount of land along the lines that I paid for.

X3! Any property I buy in the future will require an updated survey, with permanent markers along the sides, not just at the corners. It will reduce the problems from misunderstood property lines, like when your neighbor tells you that the guy who sold to him said the property line goes to BLANK. Especially true if you intend to build a structure or fence. And does anyone think a survey will be cheaper in the future?

Let's just say that I've learned the hard way. Thankfully, not an expensive lesson, but problems could have been avoided if I'd required a survey as a condition of purchase.

 

[PastTense]

Have you talked to the neighbor about this? What did he say? You might lay out a tentative line to the best of your ability and ask him to verify it.

 

[Ken45101]

Around here, the county GIS maps cannot be trusted. We have a rental piece of property that shows a 20' dogleg that follows an exiting fence. However, the deed doesn't have the dogleg! The neighbor has a shed built right across the property line

Fences do not have to be on the property line. Our one fence stays on our side of the creek (sensible) even though in some places the actual line is 30' across the creek. I try to keep the survey markers visible (I need to get out there and put in a few new markers.)

 

[KYDan]

Around here, the county GIS maps cannot be trusted. We have a rental piece of property that shows a 20' dogleg that follows an exiting fence. However, the deed doesn't have the dogleg! The neighbor has a shed built right across the property line

Fences do not have to be on the property line. Our one fence stays on our side of the creek (sensible) even though in some places the actual line is 30' across the creek. I try to keep the survey markers visible (I need to get out there and put in a few new markers.)

This is very true the fence may or may not be on the line and very often is not. The lines may even differ from deed to deed for no explicable reason. On the boundary with my northern neighbor the lines from my deed and theirs do not agree and there is sort of a no man's land between the calls on the deeds. And, the same family formerly owned both parcels. I didn't worry about it and simply placed the fence on what met the calls in my deed. A few feet is really insignificant. However, there have been feuds and murders over a few feet of ground. It's not worth ill will and possibly worse over a tiny bit of earth.

 

[dmccarty]

I have played with my GPS to find our property lines. I can stand at the marked corner, all of the corners are in the woods, and watch the GPS bounce my position all over the place. I have done this in the winter with no leaf cover though the pines still had needles. If I walked between two marked points the GPS position can go all over the place. I think the best I have ever seen the position was within five feet of the line or marker. Sometimes/most times it has been around 30 feet or so off. Deeper in the brush, well, forget about it. :laughing::laughing::laughing: You can't find a property line with this much inaccuracy. One might get close enough to find a marker but I would certainly not build something of value based on a $200-300 GPS.

Later,
Dan

 

[Ken45101]

^^^ I agree, I have not found the GPS's to be all that good. I can do better with a good compass.

 

[dave1949]

A good non-commercial GPS is what, about plus/minus 3 meters (~15 ft) in accuracy?

They have their uses, but I wouldn't build a property line fence based on a consumer GPS unit.

 

[QueBota]

Useful for hiking, yes. Useful for getting a rough idea of property line, yes. Useful for determining actual boundaries, no.

Most Google Earth imagery for the U.S. has a resolution of 1 meter, some urban areas offer much higher resolution which could be more useful but still not good enough. It is hard to cleary
identify features on the ground smaller than 2 meters with 1 meter resolution imagery.

I have an approx. $450 Garmin GPS device, closest I can get to a known location is around 5 feet; however it is not repeatable. The same location will always show different coordinates. The high end ($$$$+) GPS devices used when accuracy counts, must be left in position for a period of time to achieve satifactory accuracy.

I would spend the $$$ on a professional survey, get them to put in as many pins as possible.

My .02,
Dave

I use a GPS to hike all the time. Try this--
Get the coordinates at your two corners with a handheld GPS device. Open Google Earth on your computer. Start at one corner, mark it. Go to the other corner, mark it. Draw a straight line between the two. Now anywhere on that line, google earth with give you the coordinates. Put your mouse pointer on 4 or 5 spots along the straight line. Write down all your coordinates. Now go out and mark each one on the line untill you have enough points to be able to see your line all the way from corner to corner.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

In the first place there are different coordinate systems-lat & long is just one-and different datums like NAD27. Other common datums are: NAD83, WGS84, ITRF00. Therefore you can have a coordinate system/datum mismatch causing error on top of the built-in deviation of the GPS signal (even if it says accurate up to 5 feet).

None of this matters for hiking or driving a car because you can usually see where you need to be.

I understand the commercial GPS systems used by surveyors can be very accurate, but usually the operators are also well versed in coordinate system/datum issues.

If none of the above makes sense to you, hire a surveyor.

 

[Ken45101]

I understand the commercial GPS systems used by surveyors can be very accurate, but usually the operators are also well versed in coordinate system/datum issues.

I believe those systems use a "differential GPS" which sets up a separate local station, perhaps at a known surveyed location. Then they go from that point.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

That is also my understanding. They set up one fixed unit on a known location, like a Section corner marker. The fixed unit receives the GPS signal, calculates the deviation between the known location and the GPS signal, then transmits the delta to the mobile unit. The mobile unit reads the GPS signal form the satellites, the delta from the known-location unit, and then calculates the location of the mobile unit.

Even then, how the fixed location and mobile location are identified have to be consistant in relation to the datum and coordinate system used. In some places, they use a State Plane Coordinate System, which has slightly different numbers from lat and long.

 

[JakeBrake]

In my opinion $600 to lay out a 2700 ft. fence line is a cheap price. This is based on my own property which is very hilly timberland. In places I can't see 50 ft. Also, in timberland, Murphy's Law says that the most valuable timber trees will be exactly on the property line.

 

[Carl_NH]

Agree with Jake Brake and many others @ $600 to mark the line is time and money well spent. Another suggestion is if this was timbered recently (only this plot) a good forester would have blazed the trees (yellow or some mark) indicating the property line. (Yes, timber guys can cross the line for a specimen tree and can carry a can of paint!)

I would ask your surveyor to blaze a mark (on solid trees) every 40-50' on both sides of the tree and also put in some steel rod every 100-200' along the line.

I recently took a tour of our property in NW PA (fracking area) and it was surveyed and timbered in 1985 with blaze marks - long story short it was real easy to define the property line with the blaze marks 25+ years later.

I used google earth to pinpoint and lay out the coordinates then walked the land and the GPS varied depending on the signal but the blaze marks were invaluable.

Carl

 

[Timm250]

Agree with Jake Brake and many others @ $600 to mark the line is time and money well spent. Another suggestion is if this was timbered recently (only this plot) a good forester would have blazed the trees (yellow or some mark) indicating the property line. (Yes, timber guys can cross the line for a specimen tree and can carry a can of paint!)

I would ask your surveyor to blaze a mark (on solid trees) every 40-50' on both sides of the tree and also put in some steel rod every 100-200' along the line.

I recently took a tour of our property in NW PA (fracking area) and it was surveyed and timbered in 1985 with blaze marks - long story short it was real easy to define the property line with the blaze marks 25+ years later.



Carl

This is a part of a farm that was divided into 4 tracts as a part of an estate settlement. This line did not exist until about 2 years ago so when it was logged farm was still one 80 acre tract and there are no blaze marks on the trees. When the property was logged the owner wouldn't let them cut any of the hickory or walnut so those trees are over 50 years old.

 

[dave1949]

This is a part of a farm that was divided into 4 tracts as a part of an estate settlement. This line did not exist until about 2 years ago so when it was logged farm was still one 80 acre tract and there are no blaze marks on the trees. When the property was logged the owner wouldn't let them cut any of the hickory or walnut so those trees are over 50 years old.

So, if you log those trees someday, knowing exactly where the line is--at a cost of $600--could easily come back to you in timber value.

 

[Carl_NH]

Timm250

My point is to have the surveyor blaze (mark) the trees as well when they mark the line.

The main point here is over 25 years on our land, I was able to easily find the line without digging and looking for rusted pins in the ground.

Carl



Carl

 

[dave1949]

I agree with Carl, if you have the line blazed, it really helps.

I had ours blazed when the survey before purchase was done. The survey was a bit iffy and very old, so it was a good idea to get a new one. I split the cost with the seller.

About five years later I refreshed the blazes with Nelson boundary paint from spray cans. Boundary Mark 6-8 year duration | Nelson Paint In areas where there were no trees to blaze, I tie a bit of surveyor's ribbon on a sapling that is about on the line. I'm not paranoid about my boundaries, but I like to be able to find them easily.

 

[Timm250]

Well we were set to close on the 19.5 acres today & the lady at the attorneys office who does the paperwork had a family emergency yesterday afternoon & had to leave early. The attorney won't close without her there to finish the paperwork because of liability issues with the settlement statement. So now we are waiting to see when she will be back & can finish up the documents. I would have thought the attorney could finish the paperwork without her but he says no way. She has to do it because he's not comfortable doing the settlement statement due to the liability potential. Does anyone know what this consists of? Farm Credit said that this is something new that is required at closing.