Propane Supplies

[TheMan419]

I’m very happy that my contractor just completed my natural gas pipeline (1500’) and home conversion from propane appliances to natural gas. I sold my 500 gallon tank and happily watched it go down the road on a truck.

It is good to be on natural gas. Our boiler and hot water are the only natural gas appliances we have. But it makes it much easier to properly size a generator when I don't have to worry about heat and hot water as much.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Currently $1.90 ($1.80 pre-paid) here. Usually goes up to winter price in October.

 

[Citydude]

No worries, we have our own supply 45 miles from my home.

Wyoming

Wyoming

www.parpacific.com

 

[TractorGuy]

Went all electric in 93 and never looked back.

 

[plowhog]

L

If you have any empty tanks, get them filled now.

Larry,

Thanks for the reminder. I'm having all propane tanks filled now.

 

[deserteagle71]

Went all electric in 93 and never looked back.

Your electricity supplier must be very dependable. All electric ain't good when the power goes out frequently for hours at a time.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Your electricity supplier must be very dependable. All electric ain't good when the power goes out frequently for hours at a time.

My philosophy is Defense In Depth. Under normal circumstances, 19th century technology gets me by just fine. We don't need electricity to be comfortable. That goes out the window if we have a Cascadia Zone quake. There's not much chance my chimney would survive, and aftershocks would make any flame heater a danger. Hey, the last time the PNW had a full rip subduction zone quake, it was in January, not exactly the most comfortable time of year. As a backup, I can move into the travel trailer, where the furnace is designed to survive shaking. Of course, that means living on propane.

 

[Root Cause]

By this time next year, we should be in the new house with a water stove for primary heat and propane for backup. I am hoping that our heat cost is minimal for the next 10-15 years. As always, plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[Alan W.]

Ive been trying to get our churches 500 gal tank replaced with a 1000 gal one for over a month.
Our supplier has the tank but only has one driver and they are still doing the summer fills.
I know finding qualified drivers is hard at this time. So I wait.

 

[ning]

I called around the last couple days and I got quotes from $2.20-2.45 (Not calling Amerigas, Ferrelgas or Suburban Propane as all of these are guaranteed to be about a dollar over the rest and it's a waste of time to get prices other than for amusement purposes).

The place I got propane from last year told me to call back for a large-fill price; today they said they'll get me 1,000 gallons at $1.75 early next week.

 

[ning]

Ive been trying to get our churches 500 gal tank replaced with a 1000 gal one for over a month.
Our supplier has the tank but only has one driver and they are still doing the summer fills.
I know finding qualified drivers is hard at this time. So I wait.

Tanks are apparently tough to get around here because so many people are putting in backup generators.

 

[TractorGuy]

Your electricity supplier must be very dependable. All electric ain't good when the power goes out frequently for hours at a time.

Our electric co-op is very reliable. We are in a hurricane prone area so I have a diesel generator for those rare times we are out for more than an hour. I have had two occasions that I had to run it for several days. I generally try to keep a weeks worth of diesel on hand during storm season. The longest I ever had to wait for a diesel delivery was 3 days. I called Friday before a hurricane struck and they showed up to fill my tanks on Monday while everybody was out of power. We had enough on hand to run the generator while we waited for delivery.

 

[ponytug]

Tanks are apparently tough to get around here because so many people are putting in backup generators.

I wonder why...we've been averaging six or so outages a year lately, with the frequency steadily increasing. Lots of reasons from the power company, but the bottom line is that the power supply is less reliable.

I hope to have our battery installation finished Tuesday.

I see folks around here putting in big propane tanks close to houses, which seems to me like an interesting decision in wildfire country. I have an acquaintance with two above ground 5000 gallon tanks thirty feet from the house.

Great price on the propane!

All the best,

Peter

 

[Wakey]

I hope to have our battery installation finished Tuesday.

Nice.. did you make a thread? I’ve got a genny but the battery stuff is interesting.

 

[TheMan419]

Our electric co-op is very reliable. We are in a hurricane prone area so I have a diesel generator for those rare times we are out for more than an hour. I have had two occasions that I had to run it for several days. I generally try to keep a weeks worth of diesel on hand during storm season. The longest I ever had to wait for a diesel delivery was 3 days. I called Friday before a hurricane struck and they showed up to fill my tanks on Monday while everybody was out of power. We had enough on hand to run the generator while we waited for delivery.

Always important to keep enough fuel on hand. For us it is tornados and snow. Odds of a large area wide power outage is slim. I keep enough fuel on hand to run the generator 24/7 for 2 days. If the power outage is longer than that or area wide I would know it and conserve fuel. I could live life off that fuel for at least a week if I had to and it was cold out. Longer if the weather was decent.

It is a gasoline generator and the fuel is rotated through the zero turn and/or the car as needed to keep it fresh.

 

[Root Cause]

A big oil company in Texas was held hostage for ransomware back in May. The southeastern US was nearly out of gas for about 3 weeks. Of course, we were on vacation in an RV when few stations were open.

Panic didn't drive my decision but I did learn a lesson that even without a natural disaster we live in strange times. I needed a bigger genny so for this reason, I went with dual fuel and bought a roll-a-round LP tank to have more capacity and make it easy on my wife if the need arises in the future.

 

[TractorGuy]

Tanks are apparently tough to get around here because so many people are putting in backup generators.

I recently tried to purchase an aluminum diesel tank. I contacted a MFG near me and the guy said they were 16 weeks and 8000 tanks behind in production.

I bought a 100 gallon Freightliner tank from a scrap yard.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I recently tried to purchase an aluminum diesel tank. I contacted a MFG near me and the guy said they were 16 weeks and 8000 tanks behind in production.

I bought a 100 gallon Freightliner tank from a scrap yard.

Your experience with the supply chain is similar to mine. I went to a JD dealer to buy a quality riding mower and bagger. I got the last mower in stock, and the bagger was not available. JD says, "Order canceled. No projected delivery date." GM just shut down all vehicle production in the US because they can't get chips, so it's not just the little guys who get their order shorted.

It's hard to predict where shortages will pop up. This thread was triggered by a throw-away line in an agricultural news program. They said that propane stocks were down 39% year over year, which got my attention right away. A little google fu found that the actual number is closer to 20%, so we'll probably scrape by.

If we have a mild winter, no problem. If we have a harsh winter, things could get tough. I can't remember what year it was, but I remember limited propane deliveries in mid-winter. De facto distributor and dealer rationing seemed to get people through the crisis, but a lot of people got chilly. It's been wet in the SE, and if farmers have to run grain dryers on their crop, it could deplete propane supplies that are already low. Extreme cold events are certainly possible, and for the last few years the polar vortex has been flopping around like a fish out of water. If it lands where propane is a major heating fuel, things could get dicey.

That's the down side. The up side is that propane doesn't go bad. Fill a tank and you have a full tank until you use it. Insurance that costs you nothing in the long run is really cheap insurance.

 

[ning]

I wonder why...we've been averaging six or so outages a year lately, with the frequency steadily increasing. Lots of reasons from the power company, but the bottom line is that the power supply is less reliable.

I hope to have our battery installation finished Tuesday.

I see folks around here putting in big propane tanks close to houses, which seems to me like an interesting decision in wildfire country. I have an acquaintance with two above ground 5000 gallon tanks thirty feet from the house.

Great price on the propane!

All the best,

Peter

I regret not burying ours originally over 20 years ago, that seems a much better way to do things.
Our tanks are about 40' from the house. I didn't put them there, that's just where they get put I guess.

Tanks typically don't rupture/explode in bad fire conditions, though their overpressure valves will let gas off and make a huge blowtorch when there's enough heat and an ignition source... hope that's not pointing towards the house, though if the tank is hot enough for that to activate, the house is probably going to ignite from the radiant heat itself.

 

[ponytug]

I agree that in principle propane tanks aren't supposed to do anything more than blow their overpressure valve during a fire. I saw many post fire photos last year with the small tanks intact.

Having seen post fire photos, and talked to CalFire folks, it would appear that isn't always the case. My guess is that the over pressure valeves are designed for a certain, probably slow, rate of increase in temperature and wildfires exceed it, at least sometimes. I would bet that things like fire intensity and the amount of combustible material in the area affect what happens.

YMMV...

All the best,

Peter