Propane regulator?

[Richard]

Have a ventless fireplace in the living room.
Outside I have a switchable, two tank regulator made by Marshall. I presume the "inside" of the fireplace to also have a regulator somewhere.

Scenario: Hook up tanks, light the pilot light. go to turn the gas to "on" and you get an expected and typical "flare" of flame as the fireplace lights up. Nothing wrong there. THEN, WHOMP. The flame goes out. Fuel starvation seems to be the culpret.

Do regulators "go bad" or could there be some other insidious problem (like maybe ladybugs in the pipes?? (joke))

If the regulator goes bad...any "odds" as to whether it is the outdoors one in the elements, or the inside one?

Soon to be Cold in Tennessee...besides...wife likes the flames, cold or not.

Richard

 

[MDNick]

Richard,

Your joke might not be a joke. Probably not a lady bug, but if the propane bottles spent any time not connected to the plumbing, several insects will nest in the plumbing, mud daubers especially. You have to be careful with gas grills for that reason. All the gas goes out at the air inlet, you go to light the grill, and voila, all kinds of fire in places not planned for. Can be annoying. In your case, it is possible that a nest of some kind is in the plumbing, allowing a limited amount of propane by, but once there is consumption, not enough to sustain the flame. Just a thought.

Farmer kid usetabe, Farmer Wannabe

 

[Bird]

Yep, Richard, regulators can go bad./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif And as mentioned previously, insects can clog things up, too. The last 5th wheel travel trailer I had, had an automatic changeover regulator, two 30# bottles, and I also had a 4500 Kw Kohler generator that ran on the LPG. While it was still in warranty, the generator quit working. After the RV dealer spent two days trying to fix it, with no success, he sent me to a Kohler service center, and after two hours, we finally figured it out. The automatic changeover regulator seemed to work fine (pressure test showed the proper pressure), but by using an inline pressure gauge, we found that almost instantly when the generator started, the pressure dropped to nothing. There never was anything wrong with the generator; just replaced the regulator at the bottles and that fixed it.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Do yourself a favor and don't play with what you don't know.You must realise that a propane or natural gas device operates as a "controlled explosion".If your regulator is "bad" it may stop all gas flow,or may cease to regulate and allow full pressure to your unit(Blows right by your gas valve)......Regardless....have your local propane dude,or someone who is DEFINETLY qualified,check it out...Don't get yourself and yours hurt to save a couple of bucks on a service call...I've seen it happen too many times.......

 

[Egon]

Could also be the thermocouple. Chances are the only regulator is outside as they may vent if the diaphram fails. Some are built with a vent pipe going outside.
As the other fellow said, get proper help or you could have an unexpexted bang.
Egon

 

[WVBill]

My vent free fireplace has an Oxygen sensor somewhere in the circuit. It's supposed to cut off the fireplace if carbon monoxide starts to build up too high. If your's has one of these sensors, maybe it has gone bad and is cutting off the fireplace. On the other hand - maybe it's working correctly and keeping you alive.

If it were me, I'd be on the phone to the propane company - it's probably a free service call to have a pro come out, do an inspection and tell you what's wrong.

 

[Richard]

Thanks for points well taken. I suppose the most salient point is that I need to drop the Tim Allen act of doing everything myself and realize that brain surgery is best when performed by properly trained surgon and propane surgery is best when performed by qualified propane Doctor.

Guess no need in blowing myslef up. (hmmm... still confused as to why the wife was doubling my life insurance.../w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif )

Richard

 

[dmccarty]

Richard,

I have heard of this guy down in Texas, who is into Propane big time. In fact its his life. His name is Hank Hill and he speciallizes in Propane and Propane Accessories. He likes trucks and has lawn tractor so he can't be that bad of a guy. Might want to give him a call.... Maybe Bird has his number....

/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Hope this helps..... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Dan McCarty

PS. For our OverSeas Brethern and the Cartoon Challanged, Hank Hill is a character in a cartoon in the US called "King of the Hill." His life is Propane....

 

[Bird]

Dan, I'm not familiar with that guy, or the cartoon.

 

[ERNIEB]

As Buck Strickland sez. "Propane is Gods gas"

Ernie

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

Richard,

Sounds like your pilot is dirty. If the flame isn't steady and mostly blue (if it's orange or has a LOT of yellow--not just the tip) then the pilot probably needs to be cleaned. My unit is a little different than yours since I have radiant panels rather than visible flame, but I think the pilots might be about the same. I have to clean mine at least once and sometimes twice a year. The pilots build a white crust on them that keeps them from burning properly and thus they don't keep the thermocouple heated properly and then there is a loud snap and the heat goes out. The guy who sold me mine told be how to clean it so he wouldn't have to do a service call.

Basically, I remove the front shroud and the metal grid covering the pilot and radiant plates. On mine, the pilot is located in the middle at the bottom of the plates. It is a silver tube about the size of my little finger. If you look at the side of this tube, there is a small brass trap door with a spring hinge that lets you open it just a small crack. I take a Q-tip and shove it down the pilot hole and watch through the trap door. Break up all the white crusty stuff (which I'm sure Hank Hill could identify), remove the Q-tip and blow some compressed air through the trapdoor hole. Then I use compressed air to blow the dust off the radiant panels and light the pilot to test it.

If you are the least bit concerned about doing this, hire a friendly furnace man and have him do it, (keeping a close watch over his shoulder). Propane is not something to mess with. If you only have to do it once a year, then have it serviced before the heating season starts. Be aware, that these non-vented units put a lot of moisture in the air and that if you use them alot, the humidity level in the house will go up. Make sure you have adequate attic ventilation so the moisture has somewhere to go. I've seen a lot of moisture damage and wall staining, especially in real tight houses.

Hope this helps

SHF

 

[Richard]

Thanks SHF but indeed, the pilot is fine. I have taken the logs out of the fireplace to get better look and all is well. What happens is when the gas is turned 'on" so that the pilot light lights the flame front, I get my typical "whump" as the burner lights then almost immediately, another "whump" as the flame dies from apparent fuel starvation.

With Thanksgiving, I have yet to phone service dude..I plan/hope to get that ball started today.

Thanks
Richard

 

[Egon]

Does your unit have an adjustment to regulate the amount of air going to the burner?
Egon

 

[Egon]

Another question:
What do you have to do to relight the pilot light after the main burner shuts everything down? Do you have to reset a regulator by the Tanks?
Egon

 

[Richard]

Unsure of exactly what you mean here (due to my ignorance)..so from the outside..

I have my 100 pound tanks connected to my outside regulator that has an A/B switch to switch between the two tanks. As far as I know, there is no adjustments available here. Following plumbing inside, it goes I am told, into yet another smaller, regulator (unfortunately, INSIDE the fireplace and may be difficult to reach). Somewhere before or after this regulator, I have my "inside" shutoff valve. ("inside" because I also can shut off at the tank valve outside)

Plumbing goes into the firebox and presto...I have my (missing) heat.

Richard

 

[Richard]

To rellight the pilot, (presuming full tanks/shutoffs "on") I turn the firebox flame adjustor "on" and push/hold. While holding, push the pizo clicker button and after maybe 4 attempts, it will typically light the pilot. After pilot lights, I can then turn this knob further on which lights the burner. It is at THIS point that I get a quick flame front then just dies out, sometimes taking the pilot with it, sometimes not.

I have no reset buttons anywhere that I am aware of and after 3 years, am having my first problems.

I spoke with local gas company last week and he said to check out my "thermal-coupling".

Right /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif. I have a service call in to the guy that installed all of this. Hopefully, he will call me back now that Thanksgiving is over.

Richard