Power to Pole Building 450'

[ray66v]

For my meter there is a $18 a month meter charge and I thought that was nuts.
IMHO, I am not an electrician and wire sizes need to be taken from charts, but I do my own electrical things a majority of the time. I ran this to my pole shed 150 feet away from the house and it works great for my 60 Amp welder, 50 Amp camper and whatever I want to run. I don't know the largest size it would take for a 100 amp service at that distance, but is should be doable.
If it was me, I would look into running a run 3 #2 gauge aluminum direct burial wire for 220 volts.. I wouldn't waste my money on copper for that, or on conduit either. I don't think the power companies run copper and conduit in their buried wire at least around here. Why would I? Bury it at least 18" deep so you don't have to worry about hitting it with something. Put a 100 amp breaker in your house and another smaller panel in your pole building.
Run direct burial telephone wire for your phone or computer. That's all the telephone company uses.

Running aluminum wire for service lines is fine, but you really don't want to do it without any conduit, unless you have totally rock free soil under, and around it.

Many of us won't run any electrical wire without conduit. We have learned the hard way.

Pulling that kind of huge aluminum wire through conduit, or even putting the conduit on it first, requires a larger budget for conduit, and is really difficult, especially when your talking 450'.

That's why people like to use copper.

 

[lhfarm]

...

Why do you guys keep building your barns so far away from the power?

Good question. My pole barn replaced another old out building near the same location. Never considered it being somewhere closer, but with hindsight, maybe I should have.

I would go with conduit for no other reason than it gives you room for error - we had to pull extra 6" at the barn end.

I put the Cat5 in conduit too, with a pull string. No problem with Ethernet at that distance.

 

[grsthegreat]

I am an electrical contractor, and as far as I'm concerned if all you plan on doing is running a compressor and/or welder plus the necessary lights microwave etc, you could get by on a 60 amp service to the shop. I ran my 30x40 shop for 6 years on a 50 amp 240 service and i had a 60 gal compressor, a 50 amp stick welder and 120 v MIG welder, 9 - 8' high output strip lights, microwave and computer on it. Never had an issue.

Problem was, then i bought the plasma cutter and cnc table.... i needed more power. Ended up running 200 amps off the 400 amp main. moral of the story...... do you really know for a fact what the future holds.

If you never plan on adding to the man cave, then go 60 amps. For a 3% allowable voltage drop at 450 feet, you'd need to run two (2) 2/0 aluminum wires and you can run one (1) #1 for neutral and a #6 for ground wire. I would also run out all the wire alongside the trench then start slipping the 2" schedule 40 PVC over the wire and walking it out. I usually assemble 3-4 lengths of pipe then slip it over wire and walk.

For 450 feet prepare to get tired and dirty hehe. better you than me (did i type that out loud).

If you want to go 100 amps, your going to have to run 4/0 4/0 2/0 & #6 combination for a 3% voltage drop. Mighty spendy. I also cant believe your power company hits you $60/month. Its $18/month here in Idaho, and i thought that was alot.

Here in Idaho 2/0 2/0 2 triplex URD (burial ) cable is running about $2.15 / foot . 450 ' would run almost $1,000 plus an additional $120 for the ground wire. Figure 2" sch 40 PVC pipe at about $0.50/foot.

 

[paulwestski]

In western Va they offer agricultural rate minimum monthly meter fee of $10.00
That's with Appalachian power.
I'd inquire with Dominion Power to see if they have a similar rate.

 

[Uncle Wayne]

I'd bite the bullet and go bigger and install the 100 amp over the 60 amp.

I can't believe the $60 per month meter charge with an existing account! It would be $12 per month for an existing account here. For new accounts, the power company requires a septic tank be installed first before they'll install a power line.

Good luck.

 

[grsthegreat]

I'd bite the bullet and go bigger and install the 100 amp over the 60 amp.

I can't believe the $60 per month meter charge with an existing account! It would be $12 per month for an existing account here. For new accounts, the power company requires a septic tank be installed first before they'll install a power line.

Good luck.

When I wanted to add a separate meter to my shop with its own 200 amp service, my power company had a descent monthly fee for minimal usage, and that wasn't the problem. The big problem is they wanted $12.50 / foot to install, and they wouldn't let me supply the trench. I had 350 feet to the transformer 8 12.50= $ 4,375.00 . . . . . yikes. not happening.

What i did was move my meter off the house and mounted a 400 amp meter main with 2 - 200 amp breakers about 5 feet from the transformer. Then i back-fed the existing house off of one breaker and i dug my own trench and piped and wired the shop off the new 400 service myself. Overall i did it for about 1/2 of the utilities proposed cost. for everything.

 

[PoorMansCat]

Not sure about where you are, but there is nothing set in stone.... I wanted 200A service and a seperate meter installed for my shop... AEP came out and we discussed it several times...
in the end, the price changed several times and eventually got down to the point that it was basically free... You might ask for a on-site analysis by the electric company engineer... they can sometimes offer suggestions that will be more cost effective.
I did all the electrical wiring on the shop myself, ran the wiring from the service panel to the meter pole...etc.. inside the city, so everything had to be signed off on by the City Inspectors Office... Proud to say, it passed the first time.
I have the ability to run a big stick welding machine, lighting, central air/heat...etc..

 

[k0ua]

For 500ft distance at 100A 3/0 copper and for 60 amps 1/0 copper
gives you about a 3% voltage drop at full load.

At 500ft distance for Ethernet you will be over the the recommended length of 100M
I would put a cat 5 or 6 cable in and try it it might just work. If it doesn't use that wire and repeaters on it the worst case would be pull a piece of fiber in with media converters.

You could also go wireless but I don't have any experience with that.



Cable tv might need an amplifier too.
tom

500 foot of cat6 will work for ethernet, even tho it is way out of spec. expect degraded speeds, could have some problems with some NICS. Fiber would be a better way to go, expecially for lightning protection standpoint, and no problem with a simple SX media converter or SFP module in a simple switch at each end. Fiber does not cost as much as copper any more. Any time you put copper wire of any kind in the ground, you increase your risk for lightning damage. Of course you can protect it, but Fiber is really nice, No Voltage rises.. no Lightning damage! ( You need to protect the AC power to the devices on each end of course, like you would normally do anyway)

James K0UA

 

[PIPELAGGER]

since you are talking about high amperage to go that far, I would suggest going to diychatroom (DIY Chatroom - DIY Home Improvement Forum) actuall licenced electricians visit that forum and anwer questions like this. i got help with wiring RV outlet and a planer that was a 3 phase conversion to single phase. good luck!

 

[SOS]

Thanks for all the information. This will help a lot during discussions with the power company and contractors.

To let you know, there are no rocks in the ground here. It is sand and clay mix.

For internet, if I use a repeater, I would need to put a power outlet half way there (250 ft) correct? And I need to check on the prices of fiber as I may put an network camera out there.

I will let you know on the results of the power company evaluation.