Power steering loosing power

[nailerguy]

Hey Dennoace, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. However if you will reread my earlier post, I stated that any trapped air in the system SHOULD be out now that the tractor has been used some, and that barring trapped air, bad pump, relief valve etc. the only thing that changed was the oil viscosity.

You state that you have worked on hydraulic systems 10 times this size, well so have I and I have had experiences like this and found ways to compensate for them and aleviate the problem.

Maybe when you test drive that new tractor, you should ask the dealer to change the power steering oil to the low viscosity fluid first and if there is no problem, great but if there is???? What then??

Perhaps John Deere knows exactly why the tractor is doing this but does not want to admit it, perhaps it is as they say and they don't have a clue unless the larger tires on the back have actually caused the problem, ( I personally doubt this had any affect on the steering). Back in the late 1970's we use to put the biggest tires we could find on the back and "littles" on the front of our cars, because we thought it looked cool, /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I don't remember anyone having power steering problems from doing this, in fact, you only had problems when you started installing 12" lift kits and monster mudders on your pickup truck! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If Jclark had put larger tires on the front of the tractor, then you would have increased steering effort to turn the larger tire with the larger contact patch. He put the larger tires on the back! it should have had no effect on the steering at all, and in fact it did not until he changed the fluid at 62 hours.

Anyway, we all want this problem solved for JclarkAnd we are all entitled to our opinions which are usually based on our experience. I'll tell you what, I'll respect your position if you'll respect mine. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Nailerguy

 

[higgy]

Hey, this argument is based on the driving hydraulics being affected, not the steering hydraulics. It has been determined that the steering has its own pump for articulating the front wheels. The ratio argument of pump and relief valve are for the driving circuit, the two are independent, or so it would seem.

On the larger tractor with the larger stock back tires are the front tires the same size or are they larger as well?

I agree that the tractor should be returned to stock conditions. One thing that I have not figured out is that before the JD RM looked at the tractor the dealer had corrected the aft weight situation to be correct??

I think that the idea of having the dealer set the tractor back up and if it fixes the situation that the owner would pay the time for the test, if not then the dealer can pick up the tab. Or you may just pay a 100.00 or so to have some stock tires put on and test the machine to see if it works correctly. Cheap at half the price.

Dane

 

[del]

Jerry

How would any lag problem affect the steering hydraulic
system? If it was overusing a relief valve wouldn't that
be in the HST and not in the steering system, or does the
HST run off of the steering pump and not the implement pump?

Even if this was so wouldn't they at least give him the time
of saying exactly what the problem is? How long can it take
to check the pressure before and after the steering system?

As to driveline wear, I must be in line for a lot of it as
my L35 right out of the box comes with a mismatched system
to make the front tires turn 10% faster. Supposedly this
helps keep the front from plowing in the mud when turning.
Actually if this had brakes 1/4 as good as the ones on my
old Ford I'd do as I do with that, just hit one wheel brake
in the mud and pivot at Warp 2.

I can't even take this out of 4WD unless I goose the throttle
and back off or lift the fronts off the ground a bit. When
I do they move about 1/6 of a turn or so, then the lever can
be moved with one finger. Kind of nice though, I can probably
go with rears with a slightly larger rolling circumference
and have it more "normal".

thanks for the info

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif<font color="blue">D</font><font color="orange">E</font> <font color="green">L</font>/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

PS, APRIL 00 sure got a lot of cool guys to register on TBN eh? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[bigpete]

Jerry,

I see your position.

You are saying that there is damage and I am saying that we don't know if there is damage.

You are saying that there is damage, and that the stock wheels won't make a difference. I agree with this if there is, in fact, damage, but I am saying that we won't know if there is damage until the stock wheels are back on.

No damage here /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JerryG]

I guess the only thing that we truly know for sure is that something is not right. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Hypernix]

higgy,

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I agree that the tractor should be returned to stock conditions. One thing that I have not figured out is that before the JD RM looked at the tractor the dealer had corrected the aft weight situation to be correct??
)</font>

I know someone is going to tell me that this a stupid thing to do, but last summer I was moving some dirth (just a couple of loads /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif) with the FEL (410) on my 4110 using no ballast on the wheels or on the 3pt hitch. I did have my MMM on though. I had no problems at steering while moving.
Last september I was moving some fire wood with the FEL again and still not using any ballast. I notice that the steering was not very reponsive only when the tractor wasn't moving and the RPM was low... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is why would the dealer think that the ballast makes such a big difference? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Hyp3rnix

 

[rockyridgefarm]

I have completely ignored this thread. But I had to see what's going on.

JClark I am sorry about your problems. You have had some great suggestions about how to handle this. I would write those letters.

I work in a car dealership and this is what I smell. Your dealer is a jerk. He is in over his head trying to solve your problem. He got to the Deere field rep and got him to understand that you are the problem. Going around them may be the only solution. i would be talking to other Deere dealers in the area, maybe there is one who has a clue and wants to help.

Write those letters!!

 

[slefevre]

Hello all,

I have been following this for a while now, and just had to go out and do some trials on my 4110.

I have a 4110 with 410 loader, stock turfs, and a ballast box filled with 1-2 inch stone. (I don't know the weight)

1- Set front tire pressure to 22psi (per 4110 manual), filled the bucket with the biggest load of wet snow I could. (don't know the weight) resulst as follows...

Ballast box on-- steering is difficult when not moving, easy when moving.

Ballast box off-- Steering is very hard when not moving, easy when moving.


2. Increased front tire pressure to 26psi (per 410 loader manual) results as follows...

Ballast box on-- steering is easy all of the time.

Ballast box off-- Steering is moderate when not moving(by moderate I mean I cant steer with 1 finger, but effort is still pretty light, and while moving steering is easy.

I am not trying to present any conclusions, but rather I am presenting my experience with my 4110 with approx 60 hours on it. I am also running the low viscosity HY-Gard oil.

I dont think it will matter, but the tests were done in approx. 35 deg. weather.

Scott

 

[bigpete]

slefevre,

What was the surface? Pavement, turf, etc...?

 

[DennoAce]

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

- NailerGuy, I certainly resprect your opinion. I am curious why noone has commented on my bleeding procedure, good or bad. I assumed someone would have said it was a waste of time by now! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

- del, Definately not suggesting you are wrong, but I would find it hard to believe that your front is going 10% faster. Ive heard that many 4wd systems turn the front slightly faster to prevent bind, but no more than a few percent dif. as far as my common sense can tell. I mean it would fry the transfer case in time (yes would take a lot longer in mud/snow/ice conditions where the wheels can slip anyway) unless it has its own differential like a full-time 4wd vehicle does.

- slef.., I for one thank you for taking the time to do this test. I actually am amazed at the difference a few pounds of air make. I really find this hard to figure but I trust your test. I think if we can go by this, maybe 75% of JCs problem is low tire pressure...if I recall his fronts were a little low?

- In general I have ABSOLUTELY no idea what anyone is talking about when discussing how in the world two larger rear tires will affect steering to this degree. The reason the muscle cars would be steering funny is because the unreasonable rear lift (usually several inches straight up...not just a larger tire) would completely change the F/R weight ratios not to mention a host of other engineering properties that are present on a car which is 98% on pavement vs. a tractor with a couple more inches of diameter in the rear. And the alteration would affect cornering, etc not so much sitting still and turning the wheel in the parking lot of the local drive-in. That problem would have more to do with front tires being swapped for much wider ones, etc.
Other than my previously mentioned driveline stress, I can see no POSSIBLE noticable affect on steering this tractor due to slightly larger tires. I mean yeah put 6 foot tall tires in the back and yeah you got somehtin'...but a few inches? Nah. I still cannot believe why this is being even considered....JCs rig obviously has a steering problem, plain and simple. Maybe I need to be taught something....

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

In any event this is a fun little debate/discussion and I love it. hehe