Power Out - Day Two

[Flatheadyoungin]

or you have the potential to send voltage to the pole near your house and the poor lineman that thinks it's dead (yeah, they should check but when in a hurry, things are put on the back burner)

at minimum, i'd wire it so that for one to be on, the other HAS to be off....safe for everyone

yeah, I'd think the whole panel would be the easiest...when the power comes back on, is there a potential issue with the generator and the electric company sending juice into the panel at the same time? or does the transfer switch sense the change and turn off the supply from the generator?

 

[shvl73]

The switch is a physical switch between the two sources. My FIL was a former lineman and insisted it be done correctly. I was warned of the dangers. backfeeding into an outlet with the main off, can be dangerous in certain circumstances that someone with more knowlege will have to explain.

 

[JoelD]

I wired a dedicated 220 v 30 amp breaker into my panel, on the other end of that breaker I've wired a 4 prong 220 v receptical. I made a double male ended extension cord (10/4). I first kill the main, then I plug the cord into the receptical I wired and plug the other end into my generator. I then through on the breaker and I'm powering the entire panel.

Works great for me.

Last year a line guy was fixing another storm outage and walked up my driveway when he heard the generator. He looked at how I had wired and said that was exactly how he wired his generator.

One problem, if you forget to kill the main your generator could go boom when the power comes back.

The other good thing is I get another 220V outlet in the garage.

Joel

 

[rox]

From what I read online, it looks like over a million homes without power and there's no idea how long it will take to get it going again. Lots of down trees that have taken out the lines will need to be cleared.

If you are worried about friends and family, invite them over. I wouldn't under any situation bring a spare generator out to somebody else. Odds are very good that they will not take care of it. Keep it with you and take care of your family first. Your generator isn't rated for long term use, so if this lasts for a few weeks, you might very well burn it out. If your spare is off at another house, you might not get it back, or it might also have burned out.

Change the oil every day. Get an extra spark plug or two. Have allot of fuel on hand. More then you think you will need, and then some!!!!

We lost power for four days and it was a big eye opener. I'm still researching propane generators, but have a small coleman gas one and a big onan diesel in my Parents RV, so it's not a rush to get anything right now. This is looking to be the coldest winter in a very long time. We're breaking records here in December, so I'm a little worried what January and February will bring.

Good luck,
Eddie

Eddie I remeber your post about putting in a fireplace and how you, er Steph, were not interested in heat output but having one just for atmosphere. A few BTU's from wood from your land wouldn't be bad right now would it? You may have cold in Texas but we have reain, rain and more rain in Provence. it is crazy it has been raining almost every few days since early September. We are setting all kinds of weather records for rain. Well ti does bring up the water table becasue a few years ago the big complain was not rain and a low water table. We use our fireplace allw inter long for heat, gotta quit now and throw some mroe wood ont he fire.

 

[vic4news]

I wired a dedicated 220 v 30 amp breaker into my panel, on the other end of that breaker I've wired a 4 prong 220 v receptical. I made a double male ended extension cord (10/4). I first kill the main, then I plug the cord into the receptical I wired and plug the other end into my generator. I then through on the breaker and I'm powering the entire panel.

Works great for me.

Last year a line guy was fixing another storm outage and walked up my driveway when he heard the generator. He looked at how I had wired and said that was exactly how he wired his generator.

I'm surprised the lineman was comfortable with you back feeding the panel.
That is exactly what they usually don't want to see since it is too easy to forget to throw the main breaker and electrify the wires.

Vic

 

[Steve_Miller]

I'm surprised the lineman was comfortable with you back feeding the panel.
That is exactly what they usually don't want to see since it is too easy to forget to throw the main breaker and electrify the wires.

Vic

Unless you got one mother of a generator your not going to power too much down the main line. Your generator will bog and die or trip out with the draw the main line will put on it unless they have unloaded everything except your service.

Steve

 

[JoelD]

Unless you got one mother of a generator your not going to power too much down the main line. Your generator will bog and die or trip out with the draw the main line will put on it unless they have unloaded everything except your service.

Steve

That is precisely my thought, my gen would crap out trying to back feed the line, or, if line was out and shorted, by gen would trip it's breaker.

I definatley agree a three way switch set up so one or the other but not both would be optimal.

Joel

 

[Diamondpilot]

Mine powers the whole panel. It is a large 200 amp switch just above my panel and will either allow the 200 amp service from the power company to come in or be powered by the generator via a large 50 amp twist lock plug mounted just outside my garage door. Its either one or the other, no way to back feed to the pole. I did make a adapter using a dryer plug so that if it was ever needed at my sisters or dads house I could take it over there throw the main in the panel, unplug the dryer, and plug in the generator cord with this adapter, start it up and backfeed the panel. I do not recommend this and its not legal but many do it. I guess its safe as long as you throw the main and put a piece of tape over it marked do not move.

I can run my entire house except for my AC, Dryer, and Hot Tub. My generator is a Troy Built 8850 Watts. Burns 9 gallons in a 24 hour period. By the way I have propane for heat and hot water but still use the eclectic stove and oven.

Chris

 

[shvl73]

I was told the transformers work both ways, power back feed into the lines can be stepped up to thousands of volts and could potentially kill a person working the lines. I cannot verify, maybe someone who works for a utility could provide some input.

 

[gravel13]

Well I just got power back tonight around 10:00 pm, we lost it last Thursday around 8:00 pm. My wood stove did a pretty good job keeping the first floor 60-65, the second floor was 54-60 at best. The worst part was no running water until I was lucky enough to get a generator on Sunday so it hasn't been too bad, except the lack of internet and phone(I have my phone through my internet provider) and to use my cell phone I have to go out side. It is nice to have the power back. At least now I have a generator for next time.

 

[Steve_Miller]

I was told the transformers work both ways, power back feed into the lines can be stepped up to thousands of volts and could potentially kill a person working the lines. I cannot verify, maybe someone who works for a utility could provide some input.

Yes, a transformer does work that way and yes you can kill someone of they do not protect themselves from the hazards while working on lines. I'm not a lineman, but anytime I've seen or talked to lineman working on downed lines they have grounding lines they connect from phase to phase and to ground at the last disconnection point to protect them from some other person from re-energizing the lines while they may working down the line several miles. It's their protection from someone doing something their not suppose to do whether it be reconnecting the inline switches or the distribution center re-energizing a feed on which they are working. Anytime they are working on live lines, they are to be in contact with a central dispatch. Up here in Nova Scotia (NSPI) lineman sometimes work alone, when they do they have to contact or be contacted I think every twenty minutes and if no contact is made someone is sent immediately to their location to investigate why they did not call or reply. Sorry if I'm stealing someones thread.

Steve

 

[IXLR8]

I was told the transformers work both ways, power back feed into the lines can be stepped up to thousands of volts and could potentially kill a person working the lines. I cannot verify, maybe someone who works for a utility could provide some input.

You are correct!! Transformers don't care which way you are feeding power to them. If you have a step down transformer taking 10,000 volt line down to 220 volt for you to use in your home. Then when you backfeed 220 volt from your generator to the transformer.. it puts out 10,000 volts to the line!!!!!!!! This would certainly ruin a line workers day!! This is why it is a legal requirement to have a transfer switch to isolate your generator from the incoming line. Line workers are suppose to check the line to make sure it is dead before touching it. But if they don't, or you fire up the generator after they have checked it, and they get killed, a generator operator with no transfer switch will have LOTS of explaining to do!!

 

[Travelover]

Don't forget that when you back feed a line it is still connected up to hundreds of customer's houses which all want lots of power NOW.

I use a transfer switch on my set up, but I think the danger of killing a line man may be overstated. Anyone heard of it actually happening?

 

[LBrown59]

You are correct!! Transformers don't care which way you are feeding power to them. If you have a step down transformer taking 10,000 volt line down to 220 volt for you to use in your home. Then when you backfeed 220 volt from your generator to the transformer.. it puts out 10,000 volts to the line!!!!!!!!

I have an elect train transformer.
If you hook 12 volts to the 12 volt terminals you will get 110 on the cord that plugs into a wall out let.

 

[jake98]

Don't forget that when you back feed a line it is still connected up to hundreds of customer's houses which all want lots of power NOW.

I use a transfer switch on my set up, but I think the danger of killing a line man may be overstated. Anyone heard of it actually happening?

There are all different situations and they can be changing also. I don't see how you could overstate that it's wrong to risk giving a lineman a shock. If I saw somebody doing something that risky to someone else, I'd probably overreact.

 

[coobie]

Yes, a transformer does work that way and yes you can kill someone of they do not protect themselves from the hazards while working on lines. I'm not a lineman, but anytime I've seen or talked to lineman working on downed lines they have grounding lines they connect from phase to phase and to ground at the last disconnection point to protect them from some other person from re-energizing the lines while they may working down the line several miles. It's their protection from someone doing something their not suppose to do whether it be reconnecting the inline switches or the distribution center re-energizing a feed on which they are working. Anytime they are working on live lines, they are to be in contact with a central dispatch. Up here in Nova Scotia (NSPI) lineman sometimes work alone, when they do they have to contact or be contacted I think every twenty minutes and if no contact is made someone is sent immediately to their location to investigate why they did not call or reply. Sorry if I'm stealing someones thread.

Steve

Good information here!! Last year when we were working a storm on a primary line 4800 volts in a rural area of S.Michigan we had a local farmer back feeding the primary line almost a mile away with his tractor driven PTO generator.When we checked the line for voltage it read 3400 volts.Thank god we did.coobie

 

[Travelover]

There are all different situations and they can be changing also. I don't see how you could overstate that it's wrong to risk giving a lineman a shock. If I saw somebody doing something that risky to someone else, I'd probably overreact.

Don't misunderstand me, I think it is vital to protect the safety of power line workers. I think the chances of getting your genset fried when the power comes on is the more likely outcome of backfeeding.

 

[LBrown59]

Don't forget that when you back feed a line it is still connected up to hundreds of customer's houses which all want lots of power NOW.

Could somebody in one of those houses get a jolt>>>>>>??

 

[Diamondpilot]

Don't misunderstand me, I think it is vital to protect the safety of power line workers. I think the chances of getting your genset fried when the power comes on is the more likely outcome of backfeeding.

That happened to a guy I know. He simply back feeds the panel through a plug in his garage regularly used for a welder. Anyway he saw the lights come on across the street so he just flipped his main back on before disconnecting the generator and fried it. He said a replacement gen head was more than a new unit at Lowes.

Chris

 

[JoelD]

No doubt about it, a three way is best way, no way to back feed. Our power is out infrequently and I'm careful to flip main but mistakes can happen, I should get an electrician out to wire up a three way inbetween my panel and my generator.

I'm thinking I'd have to coordinate with PSNH as they'd need to kill at the street?

Joel