Power beyond modification for ease of use

[Tractor Seabee]

Homesteader,

I went to the Woods internet site and pulled up the hydraulic diagram for that BH. It indicates a open loop system but does not have a PB connection and no apparent means to get one. With just a P and T connection there is no flow of fluid forward to the FEL and 3 point. Your Massey has the PB capability but the Woods BH has no way to take advantage of of it. I would stop screwing around and call Wood's support desk and ask if there is a way to make their valve block into a PB output. If so that is your answer; all you need is another hose to connect to the Massey PB port. W/O a PB connection on BH you have the situation. Like I said before, if you have to live with it, you can reduce the frustration factor by installing a 3 way valve. They even make an electric solenoid one to make it even easier. Get me a diagram of both systems and I can sketch out that solution, Not that hard to do if you are mechanically capable. Any dealer shop can do it if they understand what you want.

New question: if you get the run around from the dealers and Woods; can you find the manufacturer and part # for the BH valve, with that info we can find out if that valve can be converted with a PB plug and port connector. More than one way to skin a cat. I love solving these problems.

Ron

 

[ptsg]

Homesteader,

I went to the Woods internet site and pulled up the hydraulic diagram for that BH. It indicates a open loop system but does not have a PB connection and no apparent means to get one. With just a P and T connection there is no flow of fluid forward to the FEL and 3 point. Your Massey has the PB capability but the Woods BH has no way to take advantage of of it. I would stop screwing around and call Wood's support desk and ask if there is a way to make their valve block into a PB output. If so that is your answer; all you need is another hose to connect to the Massey PB port. W/O a PB connection on BH you have the situation. Like I said before, if you have to live with it, you can reduce the frustration factor by installing a 3 way valve. They even make an electric solenoid one to make it even easier. Get me a diagram of both systems and I can sketch out that solution, Not that hard to do if you are mechanically capable. Any dealer shop can do it if they understand what you want.

New question: if you get the run around from the dealers and Woods; can you find the manufacturer and part # for the BH valve, with that info we can find out if that valve can be converted with a PB plug and port connector. More than one way to skin a cat. I love solving these problems.

Ron

For that to make sense, Massey would have to connect the backhoe valve right after the pump and before the loader/3pt/remote valves, which is not what happens in most tractors. Is that how Massey did this? I can't see them making that kinda of mistake.

Anyone can provide a hydraulic diagram for this tractor? First post indicated a Massey 1755D, which I can't find anything, maybe it was a typo.

 

[K5lwq]

I have to agree, of all the tractors I've had over the years these were the first Masseys I've had, and definatley the newest tractors.

The loader will operate with the hoe hooked up, not sure about the 3 point, as it is locked down with the backhoe attached.

This answers the question. If the loader will operate with the hoe hooked up then you can use the loader without messing with the hoses.

If it was plumed from the pump straight to the backhoe and no PB, when you tried to move the loader nothing would happen. The only thing left is to try driving the tractor. I am sure it will move.

The 3pt doesn't matter because it is locked down with the hoe on.

Your dealer is mistaken.

 

[WranglerX]

This brings up the question why would WOODS (supplier of hoe?) even consider using a valve assembly with no power beyond port, sort of goes beyond any standard and acceptable valve design used on a doze or a hundred different tractors or applications...

Think first thing the OP should do is find the brand and model number of the BH valve to see if its capable of power beyond....IF it is, dealer probably has it all wrong....

IF the FEL operates with the BH plumbed in and fact that the 3PH is not usable with the BH on tractor sort of makes this whole discussion moot....

Dale

 

[Tractor Seabee]

For that to make sense, Massey would have to connect the backhoe valve right after the pump and before the loader/3pt/remote valves, which is not what happens in most tractors. Is that how Massey did this? I can't see them making that kinda of mistake.

Anyone can provide a hydraulic diagram for this tractor? First post indicated a Massey 1755D, which I can't find anything, maybe it was a typo.

It doesn't make any difference where the BH is in the series. As long as it has P in, T to sump; and PB to the next outlet. To make that happen the BH valve block has to have a PB port and the PB plug in. The PB outlet becomes the P inlet for the next valve. The OPs photos seem to indicate the BH is right after the pump.

In case the OP needs the info; P stands for Power and T stands for Tank. Every valve block has to have a drain, T, going the the sump for the pump.

At this point, we helpers, need those diagrams or definitive info on how the tractor and the BH are plumbed. I have solved all my hydraulic problems using such diagrams. This may take contact with Massey, Woods, or the valve manufacturer. Where I bought my BX the service tech could not explain the hydraulics to me. I had to learn on my own (best way). Luckily I am mechanical savvy enough to work through these situations. sometimes contacting manufacturers direct. That breaks down when manufacturers refer you back to an incompetent dealer.

Ron

 

[K5lwq]

It doesn't make any difference where the BH is in the series. As long as it has P in, T to sump; and PB to the next outlet. To make that happen the BH valve block has to have a PB port and the PB plug in. The PB outlet becomes the P inlet for the next valve. The OPs photos seem to indicate the BH is right after the pump.

In case the OP needs the info; P stands for Power and T stands for Tank. Every valve block has to have a drain, T, going the the sump for the pump.

At this point, we helpers, need those diagrams or definitive info on how the tractor and the BH are plumbed. I have solved all my hydraulic problems using such diagrams. This may take contact with Massey, Woods, or the valve manufacturer. Where I bought my BX the service tech could not explain the hydraulics to me. I had to learn on my own (best way). Luckily I am mechanical savvy enough to work through these situations. sometimes contacting manufacturers direct. That breaks down when manufacturers refer you back to an incompetent dealer.

Ron

The backhoe valve does not have to have PB if it is the last valve in the series. The fact that the OP said he can operate the loader would indicate the backhoe valve is the last valve. All he needs to do is use the tractor and only move hoses when he disconnects the backhoe.

 

[ptsg]

It doesn't make any difference where the BH is in the series. As long as it has P in, T to sump; and PB to the next outlet. To make that happen the BH valve block has to have a PB port and the PB plug in. The PB outlet becomes the P inlet for the next valve. The OPs photos seem to indicate the BH is right after the pump.

In case the OP needs the info; P stands for Power and T stands for Tank. Every valve block has to have a drain, T, going the the sump for the pump.

At this point, we helpers, need those diagrams or definitive info on how the tractor and the BH are plumbed. I have solved all my hydraulic problems using such diagrams. This may take contact with Massey, Woods, or the valve manufacturer. Where I bought my BX the service tech could not explain the hydraulics to me. I had to learn on my own (best way). Luckily I am mechanical savvy enough to work through these situations. sometimes contacting manufacturers direct. That breaks down when manufacturers refer you back to an incompetent dealer.

Ron

It does make a difference where the valve is plumbed. Also, how can you tell that the BH valve is right after the pump when all we got was a picture from the rear of the tractor?

Anyways, if the BH valve was indeed plumbed right after the pump, without a PB port and the T line connected to the tank, there wouldn't be any fluid going to the loader, remotes or 3 pt. Which I really doubt that's the case.

Most of the tractors with backhoe have the system plumbed like this: Pump > Loader > Remotes > Backhoe > Tank

It doesn't matter if the valve has PB or not, because on 99% of the cases, it's the last valve and it will dump directly to Tank. It doesn't need to feed the 3pt using the PB port because you can't use the 3pt anyway.

 

[homesteader13]

For that to make sense, Massey would have to connect the backhoe valve right after the pump and before the loader/3pt/remote valves, which is not what happens in most tractors. Is that how Massey did this? I can't see them making that kinda of mistake.

Anyone can provide a hydraulic diagram for this tractor? First post indicated a Massey 1755D, which I can't find anything, maybe it was a typo.

Yes it was a typo, it is a 1755M deluxe cab

I'm going to trace the lines when I get back for my own curiosity.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

It does make a difference where the valve is plumbed. Also, how can you tell that the BH valve is right after the pump when all we got was a picture from the rear of the tractor?

Anyways, if the BH valve was indeed plumbed right after the pump, without a PB port and the T line connected to the tank, there wouldn't be any fluid going to the loader, remotes or 3 pt. Which I really doubt that's the case.

Most of the tractors with backhoe have the system plumbed like this: Pump > Loader > Remotes > Backhoe > Tank

It doesn't matter if the valve has PB or not, because on 99% of the cases, it's the last valve and it will dump directly to Tank. It doesn't need to feed the 3pt using the PB port because you can't use the 3pt anyway.

I went back to the OPs earlier posts and every thing he stated indicates he has to reconnect the PB line every time he wants to move the tractor or use the FEL, that seems pretty clear. Also from what he was describing I am convinced the BH is the first valve off the pump not the last in the series. I am only familiar with the smaller Kubotas and that is the way they are. He had the PB kit installed on his tractor to be ready for a PB ready BH. Based on the Wood BH data it is not a PB capable unit. I stand on my dialog. I would not be surprised if the Wood BH can be retro-fitted to PB as it is an open center valve, needs the plug and a port connector. Either them or the valve manufacturer should have that solution. If not, to make him happy the best solution is the 3 way solenoid which gives him the easy way to make the change.

Ron

 

[K5lwq]

I went back to the OPs earlier posts and every thing he stated indicates he has to reconnect the PB line every time he wants to move the tractor or use the FEL, that seems pretty clear. Also from what he was describing I am convinced the BH is the first valve off the pump not the last in the series. I am only familiar with the smaller Kubotas and that is the way they are. He had the PB kit installed on his tractor to be ready for a PB ready BH. Based on the Wood BH data it is not a PB capable unit. I stand on my dialog. I would not be surprised if the Wood BH can be retro-fitted to PB as it is an open center valve, needs the plug and a port connector. Either them or the valve manufacturer should have that solution. If not, to make him happy the best solution is the 3 way solenoid which gives him the easy way to make the change.

Ron

Please read post 15. The OP states he can move the loader with the backhoe in series. There is no way he could do that if the backhoe valve was the first valve in the series and it does not have power beyond. There is absolutely no advantage in plumbing a valve to redirect flow.

Let's not confuse him anymore and let him use his tractor. It will be fine the way it is.