Oil & Fuel Pour in fuel injector Cleaner

[jonyyuma]

Okay, What is the major difference in the fuel injector cleaners, that are poured into the fuel? I have bought two differnent types before, Gasoline powered and diesel fuel type. I have never paid anyone to take them out and clean them on any engines. I did pay once to have the nozzels on my truck replaced and re-calibrated, with out noticable difference in performance or smoking?.{6.2 Chevy}.Jy

 

[leonz]

Okay, What is the major difference in the fuel injector cleaners, that are poured into the fuel? I have bought two differnent types before, Gasoline powered and diesel fuel type. I have never paid anyone to take them out and clean them on any engines. I did pay once to have the nozzels on my truck replaced and re-calibrated, with out noticable difference in performance or smoking?.{6.2 Chevy}.Jy

They are solvents with lubricants, You do not need them for your Kubota as
it does not have standard injectors by using injection nozzles with out any restriction other than the individual nozzle inside diameter.

A worn nozzle affects the engine performance signifigantly.

A good fuel stabilizer like sea foam (which I use) helps more than anything.

 

[Skyco]

They are solvents with lubricants, You do not need them for your Kubota as
it does not have injectors using injection nozzles with out any restriction other than the nozzle inside diameter.

A good fuel stabilizer like sea foam (which I use) helps more than anything.

Please explain what you mean that Kubotas don't have any restriction other than nozzle inside diameter.
They do have the common injector "pop off" assembly. On my BX 24 it is set for 2000 PSI using a shim/adjusting washer. The holdoff pressure is supposed to be 1850 PSI for 10 seconds. The WSM also advises checking the spray pattern..so maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying.


Personally I won't use SeaFoam in a diesel- it is mostly isopropyl alcohol which many diesel manufacturers say not to use alcohols...:2cents:

 

[leonz]

Indirect injection diesel engines do not have injectors or restrictions.

fuel flow is controlled and metered by the indirect injection pump at each cylinders

fuel lobe in the injection pump; any unburned fuel is pushed back into the fuel rail when the piston

reaches T.D.C. , the inlet valve for fuel and air closes and the remaining fuel

is pushed back into the fuel rail and back to tank with the return line.



You could not have an indirect injection diesel engine otherwise as the indirect fuel

delivery system is passive in delivery after the injection pumps delivery of the metered fuel.



Unless something has drastically changed in 33 years.

 

[Skyco]

Ok so indirect injection diesels don't have injectors The thing that injects the fuel isn't an injector- we'll call it a nozzle, or squirter, or sprayer but not an injector

Not sure what any of that has to do with fuel system/injector/squirter cleaners..
As for jonyyuma's question as to the difference between cleaners- if you are gonna use them definitely get one for diesels...PowerService DieselKleen is one of many that has a following here, there are lots of others. Some never use them and claim good results.

 

[leonz]

The condition of the fuel entering the injection pump after filtration has everything to do with it as any water or dirt below the filtration rating will pass through to the engines combustion chamber and not burn-explode completely in a diesels case.

If the fitration is 2 Micron and water is separated the fuel pumps and nozzles will last much much longer.



Even a freshly dropped load of diesel fuel will have water in it unfortunately; and thats the main reason I suggest the Racor cyclone spinner units to filter the diesel fuel and remove the water the first time everytime.

 

[nspec]

Leonz, you're not entirely correct. Indirect diesels most certainly have injectors. The fuel to a direct injected engine is pressurized in a 'common rail' at a very high pressure. Each injector is told when to fire directly into the cylinder either electronically, or in some cases, it is electronically controlled but hydraulically actuated (caterpillar). There are also usually multiple injection events per stroke. In other words, a small pilot injection to get the fire started, followed by a large injection to get the power, followed by another smaller injection to let the fire go out slowly...all in milliseconds. This is why the new common rail engines are so smooth and quiet and do not have that diesel rattle.

An indirectly injected engine has a mechanically driven lift pump (jerk pump) which feeds injectors via individual fuel lines. Each injector is timed (usually mechanically) and fires into a precombustion chamber above the actual cylinder.

There's a lot more to it than this crude summary, but both indirect and direct injection diesels have injectors.

 

[leonz]

Leonz, you're not entirely correct. Indirect diesels most certainly have injectors.


the duetz engines most certainly do not, they have nozzles








The fuel to a direct injected engine is pressurized in a 'common rail' at a very high pressure.


yes.




Each injector is told when to fire directly into the cylinder either electronically, or in some cases, it is electronically controlled but hydraulically actuated (caterpillar).


The Bosch and Nippondenzo are strictly mechanical.




There are also usually multiple injection events per stroke.



If that happened the engine would stop



The firing order determines firing sequences with the fuel delivered to the specific cylinder in one burst with the injection pump which in the Duetz and Kubota engines are lined up with the injection pump to properly feed fule at the right time to the correct cylinder


In other words, a small pilot injection to get the fire started, followed by a large injection to get the power, followed by another smaller injection to let the fire go out slowly...all in milliseconds. This is why the new common rail engines are so smooth and quiet and do not have that diesel rattle.


the engines are recieving the proper amount of fule for firing versus what is happening to the BX models and others to secure the EPA blessings



An indirectly injected engine has a mechanically driven lift pump (jerk pump) which feeds injectors via individual fuel lines.


yes the diaphram pump is common on the Duetz and others



Each injector is timed (usually mechanically)


Via the springs and stops in the fuel side of the injection pump.

No precombustion chamber in the Duetz motors; The pistons have a 3 leaf clover in the larger air cooled engines and the smaller ones.

and fires into a precombustion chamber above the actual cylinder.


The diesel would never work as the fuel is compressed to the point that the metered amount of fuel is compressed to the point the limited volume of fuel physically explodes at the molecular level and a precombustion chamber would never work on a diesel anyway for the above reason.



There's a lot more to it than this crude summary, but both indirect and direct injection diesels have injectors.

No the indirect injection diesels have nozzles.

If standard diesel injectors were used for indirect injection diesels the fuel system would lock up and blow up because a diesel injector onlhy allows fuel to enter one way and no excess fuel to be pumped back to the return line fuel rail.

 

[nspec]

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. Perhaps our terminology is where we are comming to heads. Do all direct injected engines use a high pressure 'common rail'? It is very common knowledge (can be found on more than a few manufacturer's web sites) that common rail engines fire with up to 5 ignition events per stroke, per cylinder. This is why the new diesels are so ridiculously smooth and quiet. Go stand next to a brand new Dodge pickup and you'll see what I mean immediately. That's not the muffler making it so quiet. They indeed have injectors. They are not the same design as the old mechanical unit injectors, however. They are controlled by piezoelectrics and can fire at extremely high pressures regardless of the speed of the engine. High pressure in the fuel system without the common rail used to be dependent on engine rpm's. Common rail systems can be pressurized to upwards of 26,000 psi!

Furthermore, direct injected engines fire fuel directly into the cylinder, usually into a crown on the top of the piston. Indirect injected engines commonly had a precombustion chamber above the actual cylinder. This served to swirl the intake air and improve combustion. You can say that's not true, but I'm not making this up. Just a little legwork and you can readily find this information.

I think a lot of the confusion lies in the lingo. I do not believe that the Deutz and Kubota direct injected engines are using a common rail injection system. They simply do away with the precombustion chambers and fire into the cylinder. They have apparently increased their efficiency to the point where they are able to do this.

Perhaps there are a couple of exceptions, but most diesel engine manufactures using a direct injected common rail fuel injection system, both refer to 'injectors', and stock 'injectors' in their parts inventories - I've bought them. Again, I'm not making this up. A very nominal amount of research will uncover all of this information quite easily.

 

[Skyco]

I think terminology is the sticking point here....

leonz says IDI's have nozzles, sure they do and so do the DI injectors in my 7.3L Powerstroke. To me if it is injecting fuel into a diesel combustion area it is an injector. Thats what it is doing injecting

And yes the newer electronically fired injectors can and do fire multiple times in one cycle.

Again if the OP wants to clean his fuel system and injectors/nozzles, the yes a number of products are available to do that. And commonly the diesel and gasoline versions are different..