post hole digger in rocky ground

[FamilyFarm]

I am in the process of purchasing a larger tractor and part of my future fun list includes post holes. The ground here in the Missouri Ozarks is often mostly rock. My BX22 backhoe will break through it and dig, but what a chore compared to the ground we had in southern Arkansas where I lived and used the BX for 3 years.
Will a PHD digger manage the rocks ok? Will I need a special auger? Any help is greatly appreciated!!
Terry

 

[FamilyFarm]

I am in the process of purchasing a larger tractor and part of my future fun list includes post holes. The ground here in the Missouri Ozarks is often mostly rock. My BX22 backhoe will break through it and dig, but what a chore compared to the ground we had in southern Arkansas where I lived and used the BX for 3 years.
Will a PHD digger manage the rocks ok? Will I need a special auger? Any help is greatly appreciated!!
Terry

 

[QRTRHRS]

Your standard run of the mill 3pt auger that only has it's own weight for down pressure will not work well. It will simply bounce on the rocks. I have seen threads here about a company name Belltec. They make an auger that may do a better job.

My preference is a pounded post. Posts set in holes require intensive tamping and are never as solid as a pounded post. You would be surprised to see how well a post can be pounded in hard ground. Perhaps your ground is simply too hard or maybe you might have to wait until a wet period to do the work. IMHO, it would be worth investigating.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Your standard run of the mill 3pt auger that only has it's own weight for down pressure will not work well. It will simply bounce on the rocks. I have seen threads here about a company name Belltec. They make an auger that may do a better job.

My preference is a pounded post. Posts set in holes require intensive tamping and are never as solid as a pounded post. You would be surprised to see how well a post can be pounded in hard ground. Perhaps your ground is simply too hard or maybe you might have to wait until a wet period to do the work. IMHO, it would be worth investigating.

 

[JerryG]

I may have the same type of stuff that is passed off for soil as you do. You need an auger with good sharp teeth and weight or a down pressure kit. It almost has to be done when the soil has a high level of mositure in it also.

 

[JerryG]

I may have the same type of stuff that is passed off for soil as you do. You need an auger with good sharp teeth and weight or a down pressure kit. It almost has to be done when the soil has a high level of mositure in it also.

 

[FamilyFarm]

If you are in Northwest Arkansas, I'm sure the ground in similar. We lived in Fayetteville, Springdale and Rogers over a period of about 14 years. We are now about 30 miles northwest of Branson after spending a few years in hot, muggy south Arkansas taking care of family with health problems.
For the rocky ground, will it be best to have a PHD with radial pin clutch or shear bolt? Any idea how much a down pressure kit adds to the cost? What does the kit consist of? Is it something hydraulically operated - requiring a remote? Will I need some type of special, more durable auger/teeth, or just make sure it is sharp? Sorry for so many questions, but I have not used a PHD before. If I get one added to a new tractor deal, I want to get what I really need. If it is going to be too expensive, maybe I should check into rental units, or hire out the job to someone else.
Terry

 

[FamilyFarm]

If you are in Northwest Arkansas, I'm sure the ground in similar. We lived in Fayetteville, Springdale and Rogers over a period of about 14 years. We are now about 30 miles northwest of Branson after spending a few years in hot, muggy south Arkansas taking care of family with health problems.
For the rocky ground, will it be best to have a PHD with radial pin clutch or shear bolt? Any idea how much a down pressure kit adds to the cost? What does the kit consist of? Is it something hydraulically operated - requiring a remote? Will I need some type of special, more durable auger/teeth, or just make sure it is sharp? Sorry for so many questions, but I have not used a PHD before. If I get one added to a new tractor deal, I want to get what I really need. If it is going to be too expensive, maybe I should check into rental units, or hire out the job to someone else.
Terry

 

[JerryG]

The last I heard about the price for a kit was around $500. I don't know how accurate that number was. A down pressure system could be home made for a lot less. They are operated by hydraulics. A remote on the tractor would be needed. I have a shear pin unit, but have no problem with the pins breaking. For a rotary cutter, I would not be without a slip clutch, but for auger it is different IMO. As far as the teeth go, there are several different styles that are said to work well. I have what is called a bear claw tooth set, but don't really think that it is anything special.

 

[JerryG]

The last I heard about the price for a kit was around $500. I don't know how accurate that number was. A down pressure system could be home made for a lot less. They are operated by hydraulics. A remote on the tractor would be needed. I have a shear pin unit, but have no problem with the pins breaking. For a rotary cutter, I would not be without a slip clutch, but for auger it is different IMO. As far as the teeth go, there are several different styles that are said to work well. I have what is called a bear claw tooth set, but don't really think that it is anything special.

 

[rdbrumfield]

I am with you on the driven post. I have used the auger, sheared keys, bent shafts, and the last of all sheared the output shaft off the gearbox. One thing about driven post, it is already in the hole and when you walk away it is solid, no mess. I used one that would drive railroad ties. I won't ever use an auger again, at least not on a tractor.

 

[rdbrumfield]

I am with you on the driven post. I have used the auger, sheared keys, bent shafts, and the last of all sheared the output shaft off the gearbox. One thing about driven post, it is already in the hole and when you walk away it is solid, no mess. I used one that would drive railroad ties. I won't ever use an auger again, at least not on a tractor.

 

[FamilyFarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am with you on the driven post. I have used the auger, sheared keys, bent shafts, and the last of all sheared the output shaft off the gearbox. One thing about driven post, it is already in the hole and when you walk away it is solid, no mess. I used one that would drive railroad ties. I won't ever use an auger again, at least not on a tractor. )</font>
TELL ME MORE /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I really can't imagine anything that would just drive a post into this rock we have here, but it certainly sounds intriguing. I recently used the backhoe on the BX22 to dig a 4 ft diameter hole about 3 ft deep. It took quite a while to do and I would guess 70% of what I dug was rock rather than soil. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Thanks for any information!
Terry

 

[FamilyFarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am with you on the driven post. I have used the auger, sheared keys, bent shafts, and the last of all sheared the output shaft off the gearbox. One thing about driven post, it is already in the hole and when you walk away it is solid, no mess. I used one that would drive railroad ties. I won't ever use an auger again, at least not on a tractor. )</font>
TELL ME MORE /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I really can't imagine anything that would just drive a post into this rock we have here, but it certainly sounds intriguing. I recently used the backhoe on the BX22 to dig a 4 ft diameter hole about 3 ft deep. It took quite a while to do and I would guess 70% of what I dug was rock rather than soil. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Thanks for any information!
Terry

 

[Dishpointer]

I just received information and a DVD from Shaver on their post driver. Check out their website at www.shavermfg.com Their setup looks nice.

 

[Dishpointer]

I just received information and a DVD from Shaver on their post driver. Check out their website at www.shavermfg.com Their setup looks nice.

 

[texasjohn]

In real rock, a post hole digger wont work. If the rock is brittle, like shale, or a conglomerate that can be chipped up into smaller fragments, then you stand a chance. The auger will bring up dirt, then begin working/chipping/grinding on the rock. A big rock that happens to sit just wrong will sieze the PHD and not turn loose. You will get to unhook the auger and back it out of the hole manually using big pipe wrench and long cheater. With some experience, you can avoid most such situations, but it happens.

For a post hole digger, I'd recommend Danuser brand.. they are top of the line, very stout, and you notice it in your pocket book. However, they will get the job done if any post hole digger can. I bought a used one...3PH.

Down pressure is clearly needed on a 3PH post hole digger if there is rock... also, mandatory is a rock tip.... I repeat, a rock tip. Down pressure can be attained by standing on the PHD while it is running.... extremely dangerous... but I did it when younger. Now, I have a bracket welded on the digger which holds several hundred pounds of weights.

An alternative is a hydraulic PHD that attaches to a FEL, assuming your hydraulics can supply the flow needed to the PHD. The FEL gives you the needed down pressure. Danuser also makes this...

I have no experience with a post driver. I don't know how it works in rock.

I'd get to know some folks in the area and visit with them about how they put in their fences... and what equipment they use... am sure that you would learn about local customs, anyway.

 

[texasjohn]

In real rock, a post hole digger wont work. If the rock is brittle, like shale, or a conglomerate that can be chipped up into smaller fragments, then you stand a chance. The auger will bring up dirt, then begin working/chipping/grinding on the rock. A big rock that happens to sit just wrong will sieze the PHD and not turn loose. You will get to unhook the auger and back it out of the hole manually using big pipe wrench and long cheater. With some experience, you can avoid most such situations, but it happens.

For a post hole digger, I'd recommend Danuser brand.. they are top of the line, very stout, and you notice it in your pocket book. However, they will get the job done if any post hole digger can. I bought a used one...3PH.

Down pressure is clearly needed on a 3PH post hole digger if there is rock... also, mandatory is a rock tip.... I repeat, a rock tip. Down pressure can be attained by standing on the PHD while it is running.... extremely dangerous... but I did it when younger. Now, I have a bracket welded on the digger which holds several hundred pounds of weights.

An alternative is a hydraulic PHD that attaches to a FEL, assuming your hydraulics can supply the flow needed to the PHD. The FEL gives you the needed down pressure. Danuser also makes this...

I have no experience with a post driver. I don't know how it works in rock.

I'd get to know some folks in the area and visit with them about how they put in their fences... and what equipment they use... am sure that you would learn about local customs, anyway.

 

[rdbrumfield]

Sounds like you in more rock than dirt. Next move is a rock drill and powder.

 

[rdbrumfield]

Sounds like you in more rock than dirt. Next move is a rock drill and powder.